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Questions and answers on the David Ortiz news

July 30, 2009

What was your initial reaction?
Disappointment, more than anything. We all respond with a lot of personal bias, and in players cases these guys are close friends, or enemies and there can be no doubt that taints our response from one to the other. David is a close friend, and my goal at home is to make sure that my kids understand that being a good person, treating people right and being kind doesn’t excuse you from making stupid mistakes and bad decisions. As long as you own up and are accountable.

Is this more shocking than any other revelation? Given David’s public statements about the need to show that people can succeed “the right way” in ‘06, and his calls for punishment this spring, is this more surprising than other sluggers who have been caught?
I am not sure about anyone else, personally I am in no way shocked anymore. David’s statements make me think that the guys that did test positive do not know or have not been told — until these leaks come out.

As to the second point, I mean come on. Our stinking President had sex with a woman half his age in the oval office and looked straight into the camera in his best Rafael Palmeiro impersonation and said “I did not have sexual relations with that woman.” No, his comments don’t make it more surprising.

Should any of David’s subsequent accomplishments be judged by this?
That’s for you to decide. It seems to be an area of immense debate, but I am not sure how this could/should/will be resolved. Whatever you do you need to do it for anyone now, and if you do do something, make sure there is some detriment for anyone caught going forward. Given that so many people live on their accomplishments or stats, taking one or both away would be a decent way to deter some guys, I think.

Should any of the Sox’ accomplishments in ‘04 or ‘07 be judged differently because of this?
This makes me laugh. I have already seen the bandwagon fans start the *04 and *07 threads and remarks, people with teams who are far deeper into this than most other teams — as if this makes it all OK. Every team going back 10-15 years needs an * if you want to consider giving it to anyone. The hard part is that it’s turning into a situation where we are seeing every single GREAT player in the past 10 years caught, and they’re dragging what we thought were the majority, and are now turning into the minority, down with them.

Can David leave this controversy behind? Can the team? How does it affect the clubhouse?
Today’s game will certainly lessen the initial hammer, but it’s going to be near impossible to escape this given who he is and where he plays. It’s something the team certainly could do without, that’s for sure. My hope is that he owns up, says he did it, doesn’t put disclaimers or addendums to any of the confession, and moves on. If he does that I think it goes away far quicker than a  “I just did it once” or “I had no idea” defense. If that happens, it will only serve to prolong what is already going to be a very painful series of events.

What can be done by MLB to move on? Disclose ALL the positive tests? Anything else?
If this is going to continue, MLB and the game would be far better served by just rolling them all out, right now. It wasn’t fair when Alex was outed on his own, and neither is this. It’s a field day for sports journalists with no talent, because their story is written for them.

149 Comments leave one →
  1. July 30, 2009 5:48 pm

    hypocrite!

  2. Jeff permalink
    July 30, 2009 5:57 pm

    I love how back when it was other players Curt was in the front of the line to string these guys up and say they should never get hall of fame consideration and all-star consideration, yet now that it was one of his teammates he has eased up significantly. Try staying consistent and not flip-flopping, there, Curt.

  3. Kyle permalink
    July 30, 2009 5:58 pm

    Obviously at this point everyone is suspect, until proven innocent (which is sad). To me, the issue isn’t who did or didn’t use PEDs (and let’s be clear that in Ortiz’s case, there is no information regarding what exactly he took as some drugs/vitamins/etc weren’t banned in 2003, so in essence weren’t against the rules), the issue is all this cover up and leaked information. I mean this was supposed to be a anonymous list and we have 6 or so names leaked from it. Further more, this is a court-sealed document, meaning it’s against the law for any of this information to be revealed, or for anyone to actively pursue gaining that information. I find it odd that it was the NY Times that broke the story. I think legal action should be taken against all media outlets that gain the information sealed in that document, because it’s against the law and shows a general lack of integrity on their part. I understand it’s their job to report, but this is not the same as the Mitchell Report. I think the media needs to get over this witch hunt of naming names and start making positive contributions in allowing baseball to move on from this. We get the picture that for the last 15 years or so the game was rapant with steroids. And unless the players that played during this time want to come clean or make a solid attempt to prove their innocence (which is closer to impossible at this stage as words ring hollow now), they should be left in what is known as the “Steriod Era.” The players know what went on, what they did, and what the right thing for them to do is.

    I’m a Sox fan for life, and while this news hurts me, I can’t say I’m surprised.

  4. Dana Kiecker permalink
    July 30, 2009 6:52 pm

    Put HOF PGammons on the Cross.

    So hes HOF even though he turned a blind eye or TOTALLY missed steroids in baseball. Biggest scandal in 100 years.. he complied.

    How is that HOF?

  5. oof permalink
    July 30, 2009 6:58 pm

    Just want to second #1.

    HYPOCRITE!

  6. Ted B permalink
    July 30, 2009 7:03 pm

    Yeah, I agree with Jeff’s comment above. Your ready to string ’em up when its others, especially Yankee Players, and now when it’s your own you seem to have relaxed QUITE A BIT don’t you think?

  7. Matt permalink
    July 30, 2009 7:20 pm

    So you still never saw any of this?

  8. TheTodd34 permalink
    July 30, 2009 7:25 pm

    Mr Schilling, The Red Sox 2004 and 2007 championships are obviously viewed with the same grain of salt as every other team in the steroid era. What I’m particularly interested in though, is how does the news of Manny and Big Papi’s PED usage affect *your* memory and impression of your team’s championships?

    Is it “Oh well, everyone else was doing it?” Is there any regret that you or other teammates didn’t confront these guys about their illegal drug usage? Just as you say you’re not very shocked to hear this sort of news, it’s a little hard to believe from the fans’ perspective that none of you on the team were aware of their drug usage.

    Again, I know other teams had the same problems — the unique benefit that this forum allows (I hope) is for us to hear your inside opinion on these issues.

    Thanks

  9. jct permalink
    July 30, 2009 7:28 pm

    What a hypocrite. You wanted to jump on Bonds, and now you are laughing off the * statement?

    You are a joke.

  10. Rog permalink
    July 30, 2009 7:53 pm

    Curt where is the consistancy? You slam every non Sox player but when it hits close to home you soft peddle it. Manny and Ortiz, Juiced. Tainted champions. Mitchell Report cover up Sox bad boys. Shame on you.

  11. jon permalink
    July 30, 2009 8:01 pm

    Keep drinking the company Kool-Aid Curt!

  12. jim permalink
    July 30, 2009 8:04 pm

    That being said, let’s get over this over righteousness that Big Popi’s use of alleged steroids is was what won the ALCS or the World Series, or the series against the Rockey’s tainted, more players are sure to be impacted, it’s just a matter of time.

  13. July 30, 2009 8:05 pm

    Hey Mr.. Schilling, Perhaps you should give back that series ring. It’s tainted with lies, deceit and cheating. You call out Clemens and Rodriquez and others, but “laugh” at the very real prospect that the Red Sox would never have won a championship if it weren’t for steroids.

    And, worse (!), how can you shill and cheerlead for arguably the very worst and most dangerous President in US history. Bush (Cheney, McCain et. al) may be *your* friend, but he is the *enemy* of reason, peace, and tolerance.

  14. July 30, 2009 8:15 pm

    I find it VERY hypocritical for Kyle (a Sox fan) to talk about how it was the NY Times that broke the story as if they have a personal vendetta against the Red Sox. We could apply that same logic to the fact the George Mitchell was a Red Sox board member, therefore the Mitchell Report had a slant towards Yankee players. But, even as a Yankee fan, that’s a ridiculous road to go down. Fact is there were a lot of players doing stuff. Fact is there were a lot of companies putting stuff in supplements that players may not have clearly known about, nor did they need to because the rules didn’t motivate them to be careful about those things. If they were to publish the banned supplements list, we would all see how many things that players used to take “LEGALLY” they cannot take now. It’s a tricky road. The writers are EXTREMELY hypocritical in all this. And yes, while I am admittedly not a Curt Shilling fan, I do find his toned down stance here hypocritical as well. Although I say that, I probably would have done the same thing when someone you care about becomes involved. But, I still have to call out Curt on it just like Jeff above me.

    Agreed Kyle! It was the Steroid Era. Let it be and let’s move on. I’m tired of hearing this every few weeks.

  15. Mike permalink
    July 30, 2009 8:21 pm

    Funny how the tide changes for the people who were yelling out against PEDs when 2 of your players were taking PED’s when they won the Championship. It is really sad how some players can not just play to there abilities but they have to take that step and cheat.
    I guess we wont hear that loud talk from Manny( 2 time cheater), Big(excuse the pun)Papi, and others whom were so-called clean players.
    To Curt, don’t try to marginalize your teammates bad decisions. Just because others cheat does not mean Ortiz and Ramierez had to. They cheated and for that there is no excuse.

  16. July 30, 2009 8:36 pm

    Schilling, I suspect soon we will hear you overcame the ankle injury with the use of a “heeling agent”

    Pun intended.

  17. Stosh permalink
    July 30, 2009 8:59 pm

    where was all this “court sealed” and ” it’s illegal” when it was ARod??? curt puts his foot in his mouth a lot and now sugarcoats this because it hurts his accomplishments. how many wins of his were tainted because of those two??? cant blast just the players you want to. have to be consistent mr. schilling.

  18. Stosh permalink
    July 30, 2009 9:01 pm

    oh and by the way, steroids were banned in baseball just no punishment and yea, they are kind of illegal in the United States where i think they play professional baseball

  19. Babe Ruth permalink
    July 30, 2009 9:03 pm

    Hey Curt,

    1918 still lives.

  20. Stosh permalink
    July 30, 2009 9:08 pm

    “If Roger Clemens cannot refute the drug allegations in the Mitchell Report, then he should give back every Cy Young Award he won since he allegedly started using steroids and human growth hormone”- Curt Schilling

    Should you give back your two world series trophies? if you say no-hypocrite!!!

  21. Parvinator permalink
    July 30, 2009 10:01 pm

    I find it sad that something that is suposedly legally sealed is leaking out to the public with NO RAMIFICATIONS.

    I agree with you, Curt, release the whole list and move on. Stop this rehashing every several months so reporters can make an easy name for themselves. It’s ridiculous.

  22. Uk3 permalink
    July 30, 2009 11:21 pm

    I find it comical that your response on the steroids issue has taken a fairly large blow when it comes to Ortiz rather than when you were discussing Alex Rodriguez, the bias is so abundant, Roger and Andy and A-Rod get ousted and you are up in arms, Ortiz, you’re simply disappointed. I’m disappointed in you.

  23. Dane permalink
    July 30, 2009 11:35 pm

    I think Curt’s absolutely right but doesn’t even know it. These guys are franchise guys (at least the names leaked) and they shamed themselves as well as their teams. I think every team going to as far back as the evidence is found should sport that big *. Steroids are either cheating or they aren’t.

  24. barry bonds owns you permalink
    July 30, 2009 11:35 pm

    What now curtis “our stinking president had sex with a women half his age”
    Like that has anything to due with fact that you couldn’t wait to slam every other player that got caught now its no big deal. Face it your juiced
    teammates helped you get wins you didn’t deserve. I wouldn’t be surprised if you were on the juice no wait you weren’t that good. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

  25. Dave permalink
    July 31, 2009 12:11 am

    Hey opinionated bigmouth, it seems it wasn’t so long ago that you ran your mouth saying how the Yankees should give back their World Series Championship rings because they had some players who used steroids. Well, be a man and back up your statements and call for the same thing now, in the situation with YOUR team! People can rant and rave about a pitcher like Clemens, but face the facts, a pitcher is valuable once every 5 games. That pitcher, juiced or not contributes zero during the other 4 games. Here is a case of what the Boston media called the “most feared 3-4 hitting combination in baseball history”. These juicers were a part of EVERY game. Make no mistake about it either, without them, there would be NO world series wins either. I guess it is time to recognize your team by their new name, the roid sox.

  26. July 31, 2009 12:22 am

    From Curt Schilling,

    “Jose Canseco admitted he cheated his entire career,” Schilling said. “Everything he ever did should be wiped clean.

    “I think his MVP should go back and should go to the runner-up.”

    As for Palmeiro, Schilling said: “The year he tested positive, nothing he did that year should count, which I think would take away 3,000 hits for him.”

    I guess Curt will be calling Big Papi and telling him to give back all his awards and World Series Rings.

    Get em Curt!!!!

  27. and another domino falls permalink
    July 31, 2009 12:40 am

    it will be a great day when *schilling and all other dopers get ousted

  28. July 31, 2009 1:02 am

    Maybe your on the list too??

  29. mac permalink
    July 31, 2009 1:43 am

    l00ser!!!

  30. Dino permalink
    July 31, 2009 2:06 am

    nice of Curt to mention,Bill Clinton.
    why didnt he mention George W. Bush sending Colin Powell in front of the United Nations to wrongfully explain why we were going into Iraq?
    isnt the analogy of the wasteful deaths of thousands of young American lives a little better than Slick Willy getting oral and lying about it?
    or how about Miguel Tejada,who isnt even an American citizen, getting caught lying to congressional investigators and not getting permanently kicked out of the country.
    Ortiz will not come clean. In the Donald Fehr/Marvin Miller world,the people who leaked the info are worse than than the cheaters. The MLBPA really is a legal form of mafia instead of a labor union.

  31. Trot Haldeman permalink
    July 31, 2009 2:20 am

    How does Curt go from:

    “Given that so many people live on their accomplishments or stats, taking one or both away would be a decent way to deter some guys, I think.”

    to:

    “Should any of the Sox’ accomplishments in ‘04 or ‘07 be judged differently because of this?
    This makes me laugh. I have already seen the bandwagon fans start the *04 and *07 threads and remarks, people with teams who are far deeper into this than most other teams — as if this makes it all OK.”

    …without so much as a breath in between?

    Those questionable home runs and extra innings pitched, hit the delete key, they never happened…. but the championships are untouchable!

  32. BostonRoidSox permalink
    July 31, 2009 3:02 am

    So how juiced were you when you won those championships ? Do you honestly believe you were clean ? lol

  33. BostonRoidSox permalink
    July 31, 2009 3:03 am

    Also don’t pretend you didn’t know what was going on ! Everyone in baseball knews at the time…

  34. Zadok F. permalink
    July 31, 2009 3:51 am

    To quote Theodore Roosevelt: baseball is “a mollycoddle game.” And “When money comes in at the gate (specifically baseball games), sport flies out at the window.”

  35. Jim permalink
    July 31, 2009 4:55 am

    http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view.bg?articleid=1188184&format=&page=2&listingType=sox#articleFull

    So Arroyo used also? The day he hit A-Rod was it roid rage? Come on what a Joke!

  36. PED Papi permalink
    July 31, 2009 6:16 am

    You are hillarious, Curt. First Roger Clemens is alleged to have tested positive, and it’s take away all his records, he is tainted, etc. Then Manny tests positive and it’s “Thank You Jason Bay”, let’s not judge anyone, etc. THEN, Manny comes up with ANOTHER positive test (2 over a five year span) AND Papi gets a positive and it’s somehow related to Bill Clinton? Pathetic, but nothing new.

  37. Michael D permalink
    July 31, 2009 6:58 am

    I think Mr. Schilling is hiding something. His statements are indicative of someone who may have used steroids. Mr. Ortiz is guilty and the entire sport is a fraud. Fat guys hitting home runs while on the juice. Pitchers – who are over the hill complaining about them even though they probably are guilty as well. It’s disgusting! Start a new league- put a fork in MLB it’s dying. We need 100% testing of all profesional players.

  38. Alan permalink
    July 31, 2009 7:08 am

    Curt said that Roger Clemens, if proven guilty of steroid use, should give back his Cy Young awards. Well, Mr. Shilling, when do the “champion” Red Sox give back their rings?

  39. James permalink
    July 31, 2009 7:20 am

    I see it’s a different story when your own World Series victory is tainted by someone doing roids. Where’s the vocal criticism of these guys?? Idiot.

  40. drew permalink
    July 31, 2009 7:59 am

    Nice spin, Curt. Not so sanctimonious now, are you? Now that those two big bats that helped get you a ring in Boston are among those “cheaters” you pilloried in the past. Nice to see you get off your high horse, though, I suppose. Your name isn’t on that list of 103, is it…?

  41. Scott permalink
    July 31, 2009 8:10 am

    I agree with a previous poster that the real story is who is leaking the names and why should that person(s) be holding all the cards. The information being leaked is illegal so the person(s)doing it, and who knows if it’s a lawyer or a janitor, and the person writing about it should get prosecuted. The writer would say I am not doing anything illegal, I am just printing the story, ya but you are profitting from someone elses illegal act, thats ok? I feel this way no matter who is on the list. The names on the list are just a distraction to an actual crime being committed. If someone commits a crime but a police officer does not follow procedures the crime can be thrown out and the person walks, so maybe that is what is happening here. Either way it seems everyone involved from the players to the MLB to the government is screwing up.

  42. Daniel permalink
    July 31, 2009 8:20 am

    “Say it ain’t so. . .” It seems every week that there is a new guy to kick around. I’m sure you’re tired of discussing it. This is a bummer.
    When will this stuff be over?

  43. Bill permalink
    July 31, 2009 8:24 am

    I’d like to see David come out and say… “What did you fools think was happening? I went from nothing to a stud and made millions because of it – just like most of the rest of the home run hitters of my day. Thanks Bud for turning a blind eye and cashing in with me! Thanks Donald for making sure I would die a younger but a whole lot richer!!!

  44. David J. Shuffler permalink
    July 31, 2009 8:44 am

    Hypocrites all. Ortiz and the rest of cheaters talk out of both sides of their mouth. Bottom line is they used drugs and cheated.

    They show zero respect for the game. Sad part is the organization looks the other way, the players look the other way and so do the fans. When all you care about is winning a baseball game, you look the other way.

    I have been a baseball fan since I was five years old, a Red Sox fan since I was nine years old. No more. I am done. A pox on both your houses. If you want my vote, clean up your act. Until then, this fan is done.

  45. John permalink
    July 31, 2009 8:53 am

    Saw the link from NYTimes. Nice quote. Keep being honest. Thanks

  46. Ben permalink
    July 31, 2009 9:32 am

    Rather than placing asterisks on certain players or teams, baseball should now have a “steroids era.” Figure out approximately when steroid use became league wide and mark that as the beginning of the era, mark the ending as when PED testing was implemented and enforced. Just as baseball has a “deadball era,” it should now have a “steroids era.”

  47. Rob S permalink
    July 31, 2009 9:34 am

    In 2005, Curt Schilling testified before Congress under oath that “steroids is cheating, and winning without honor is not winning.” (See http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0503/17/se.01.html).

    Now, when it is clear that the two best players on the 2004 Red Sox were CHEATING, he says that any suggestion that the 2004 World Series victory is tainted “makes me laugh.”

    You’re an absolute joke, Schilling. Don’t know if you’ll make it to Cooperstown, but you’re a lock for the Hypocrisy Hall of Fame.

  48. Brian permalink
    July 31, 2009 9:50 am

    I find it odd that it was the NY Times that broke the story.

    What does this even mean? That those darn New Yorkers can’t beat the Red Sox on the field so they’re going to roll over them with barrels of ink? Red Sox fans are the best! FTR, the TImes broke the A-Rod story too

  49. -V- permalink
    July 31, 2009 9:50 am

    Very nice softball questions you asked yourself, Mr. Hypocrite.

  50. Brian permalink
    July 31, 2009 10:01 am

    Guys, Ortiz is his friend. His friend made a mistake but he’s still a friend so he’s not going to string the guy up. What would you guys do in his place? Seriously.

    This situation does suck though and it reminds me of something Ortiz said back during the Mitchell investigation. He brought up something about language barriers and how a lot of the hispanic players didn’t necessarily understand what was legal and what was banned because all of the material was in english.

  51. yanks fan permalink
    July 31, 2009 10:01 am

    This is almost as good as if Schilling shows up on the list! A little different tune than when Yankee players tested positive. How many rings would you have without Ortiz, Manny and Luis Gonzalez?

  52. Rob S permalink
    July 31, 2009 10:09 am

    In 2005, Curt Schilling testified before Congress under oath that “steroids is cheating, and winning without honor is not winning.” (See http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0503/17/se.01.html).

    Now, when it is clear that the two best players on the 2004 Red Sox were CHEATING, he says that any suggestion that the 2004 World Series victory is tainted “makes me laugh.”

    You’re an absolute joke, Schilling. Don’t know if you’ll make it to Cooperstown, but you’re a lock for the Hypocrisy Hall of Fame.

  53. ben permalink
    July 31, 2009 10:11 am

    SHUT UP CURT! YOU ARE A BIG MOUTH HYPOCRITE WITH KETCHUP ON YOUR SOCK I CANT WAIT TO HEAR THE NEXT NAME ON THE LIST…….CURT SCHILLING

  54. tony permalink
    July 31, 2009 10:11 am

    to curt schilling i want to know why u were so overly critical of j canseco but when its the 2 best red sox players testing positive u kind of back off manny n big poopi thank god canseco came forward or these cheaters would still b at it all of them too bad they cant publish entire list what are ur feelings regarding hall of fame? not a single player testing positive should be allowed into hof their numbers are phony all down the line and astericks should be next to their numbers as well but why arent u blasting and using same tone as u did w canseco are u a hypocrite seems to me u have egg on ur face

  55. blockhead permalink
    July 31, 2009 10:11 am

    what a freaking surprise, except it is not. everyone knew he was juicing, even you, curt. but you didn’t mind so much as long as you helmed the team past the curse in 04, bloody sock and all. it was your only way into the hall, which still ain’t a done deal. so you danced with the devil to get your 20 pieces of silver.

    you are all talk, curt. just a BS loudmouth. reminds me of when you went before congress and all your tough talk boiled down to nothing. you are a freaking chump.

  56. DougieDudeRanch permalink
    July 31, 2009 10:13 am

    C. Montague:

    I think this is the perfect time for me to come right out and admit it. I, too, appear on that list. Back in 2001-03, I was on epic doses of HGH, the Clear, and A-grade-level walrus trank. I guess you shouldn’t be surprised, given the unholy combo of my ridonkulous power and Tysonian temper. Nonetheless, I apologize to you and all your children, and their children’s children, for taking myself down a notch in their eyes. I know they must’ve worshiped me and my bomb-hitting as much as anyone, so mea culpa, C. Monty. Mea culpa.

    I’d like to offer to come over and treat the whole Schill Crue to a feast of meatball parms and Yoohoo/Jolt cocktails, but unfortunately, we all know that July 31st is D-Day — Dougie Day, that is. I am on pins and needles here, waiting to see which lucky team will pick up this power-hitting backstop for the mad run to the Series.

    If my price is too high or my power too outsized, I’ll happily stay here in Michigan and hit mad bombs in the Traverse City real estate market. Once again, I’m in the catbird’s seat — if there’s one place to make fat bucks in the real estate world while wearing pec-accentuating mock turtlenecks, it’s Michigan. You know it, I know it, and the American people know it.

    Dealt it,
    Dougie “Dude Ranch” Mirabelli

  57. Chuck Dickey permalink
    July 31, 2009 10:13 am

    “Our stinking president” – Is it possible to offer an opinion on this topic without demonstrating disrespect for the nation’s leader? I’m sure your retort will be that he showed disrespect for the country, but two wrongs don’t make a right, Mr. Schilling. Leave the name-calling to the people who can’t make a substantive argument.

    I agree that the best thing for Ortiz to do would be to own up to what he did. Of course, he had the opportunity to do so when he offered his comments regarding steroids earlier (when he advocated stiff penalties for those who are caught). For someone of his caliber to own up to this without being “outed” would be an act of genuine courage.

  58. Zeke permalink
    July 31, 2009 10:16 am

    When Yankees players got busted for steriods, people said their championship team needs an asterisk. But when the Ortiz and Manny get busted for using, suddenly the sentiment has changed. As Curt says, “every team…needs an *.”

    No Curt, *every* championship team does NOT need an asterisk. Just the teams that got busted, like the Boston Red Sox.

  59. July 31, 2009 10:22 am

    Can we mandate yearly circumference tests on the nuts of any player that is signed to a MLB contract? I believe a nut-sack size to rbi ratio would help me choose my fantasy team a little more wisely

  60. July 31, 2009 10:22 am

    Curt, this is a joke and makes ME laugh. *04 and *07 makes sense if 90% of your team was juicing. Arroyo just came out and said he was on andro and something else. Manny, Big Papi, who else? I don’t want to just start throwing out names but Nomar and Millar were kicking ass then too, and haven’t done anything since. And you forgot one important question in your mock interview:

    Does this revelation make me squirm since I testified in front of congress that I have never taken PED’s?

  61. Mike permalink
    July 31, 2009 10:38 am

    It truly all boils down to accountability. It is a sad reality that at the very least, professional baseball has become so ridden with performance enhancing drugs. It is not the performance of the players I worry so much about but the way they act when found out. It’s hard to say whether some of these guys know they are getting worked with PEDs or not at this point. Either way they should accept the responsibility and hold themselves accountable. It is up to them to know what creams are getting rubbed onto their bodies and make sure they are not illegal. Of course Curt was on the front of the line stringing guys up for this. As time has gone on it appears he has seen the sad reality of what is happening and started to alter his viewpoint. You can’t judge someone for coming up with a different viewpoint after everything that has happened with steroids over the last 5 years. Also, when things hit home, they hit home. Think about something like this happening to one of your close friends. I would think you would not bury him that quickly when the allegations and tests have not even been investigated.

  62. Von Steingrabber permalink
    July 31, 2009 10:47 am

    Where o where are all the Yankee dissers now?

    And why hasn’t KS slammed his former doping teamates?

    The hypocrisy of Red Sox Nation in giving Big Sloppy a standing O yesterday speaks volumes of the character of the fans (and that applies to every team steeped in the scandal)… it’s the obnoxious “we hate NY” mindset that shows the vapidity and egotism of RSN.

    So it could be said The Curse lives on – with an asterisk, of course 🙂

  63. billpetty38 permalink
    July 31, 2009 10:53 am

    Hey Curt what do you think about the FACT that when you were called to testify in front of congress everyone who testeifed has been caught cheating except you.Will your name be coming out on a list in the next couple of years? Also do you think the cubs should put there players on the same thing as Manny and Ortiz, they havent won a world series in 100 years. P.S Iam a phillies fan have been since 1975.

  64. Matt permalink
    July 31, 2009 10:56 am

    Well Said Curt… Great lines “It wasn’t fair when Alex was outed on his own, and neither is this. It’s a field day for sports journalists with no talent, because their story is written for them.”

  65. billpetty38 permalink
    July 31, 2009 11:03 am

    To all Red Sox fans i understand exactly how you feel I defended Pete Rose up until he admited betting on baseball.I still believe he should have a plaque in the HOF. what he did was wrong but it dosent change his 4256 hits. He didnt cheat on the field.
    I wonder if Ortiz would have hit those walk off home runs vs the yankees in the 2004 playoffs if he had not been cheating.

  66. Johnny permalink
    July 31, 2009 11:04 am

    When are they gonna test the bloody sock, im sure there is hgh in it. or the blood is fake. they say the best defense is a good offense are you covering something up?

  67. Nick permalink
    July 31, 2009 11:07 am

    A sad day for baseball, but contrast this with your post about Alex Rodriguez on 2/7/09. You took him to task for his prior denials (as you should). Where is the indignant tone regarding Ortiz’ crusade for a 1 year ban just a few months ago?

    I think you summed it up well: “Every team going back 10-15 years needs an * if you want to consider giving it to anyone.” A lot of Red Sox fans would have done anything for a title- 2004 cleared out the stupid “curse” and specter of perpetual failure, allowed the fans to just be great fans. Now the torment will return.

  68. Curt_the_Topical_Humorist permalink
    July 31, 2009 11:49 am

    Nice, Clinton joke, Curt.

    I thought maybe a joke about Bush lying about advance knowledge of an attack on US soil would have been more relevant.

    Or, one about Colin Powell lying about WMD to Congress.

    Or, one about friend-shooting TRAITOR to the US, Dick Cheney, being an all around J.O.

    You digust me, Curt. May your legacy forever be linked to the 2004 PEDSox.

  69. Russ permalink
    July 31, 2009 11:51 am

    Curt are you serious? dude you are a hypocritical disappointment. you sold out your convictions to something you’ve been grandstanding against for years because a team mate did it & was implicated? now its about owning up to it & being accountable when before it was about keep them out of the game, Hall of Fame, & all star games? you sir, are a hypocritical BLOWHARD. then again, i’m stating the obvious.

  70. July 31, 2009 11:52 am

    Way to try to humanize David there, Curt.

    Now you can go back and bash every non-Red Sox player whose done roids and say they’re bad people.

  71. mike permalink
    July 31, 2009 12:00 pm

    it’s funny how easily you hypocrites want to go so easy on ortiz, (especially you curt, but when it was barry bonds, you called him everything but a child of God. you trashed him. especially you redsock fans. now let’s see the same venom for ortiz. if not, it really goes to show what hypocrites you really are. go ahead curt, if you have any balls, blast ortiz. if not all of you hypocrites need to apologize to barry and ask his forgiveness.

  72. trbo823 permalink
    July 31, 2009 12:04 pm

    LOL…Give your WS ring back ,Curt.

  73. trbo823 permalink
    July 31, 2009 12:05 pm

    Now the the Roids is on the other A S S, Curt being a lil girly man.

  74. RoidTIZ permalink
    July 31, 2009 12:06 pm

    Curt, We should give our WS rings back. You and I and Manny knew we Roided up.

    David RoidTIZ

  75. Phil permalink
    July 31, 2009 12:08 pm

    Kyle – your comments (and Kevin Youkilis’s comments) about the NY Times might have some merit if the New York Times actually wasn’t a part owner of the Boston Red Sox. Face facts, the two best everyday players on the 2004 and 2007 teams are now acknowledged to be on a list of PED users which included only 7% of the players in the league. Even if you want to give an asterisk to the last 15 champions, you’ll be hard pressed to find that the top two players on each of those teams are acknowledged PED users.

  76. Joe Pompei permalink
    July 31, 2009 12:14 pm

    “Our stinking President……” JEESCH Curt…which lying Prez ? The one who abused the power of his office by having sex with ML? Or, the Prez who lied about WMD’s….got us into a quadmire of a war which has cost the lives of countless Americn soldiers; killed and displaced hundred of thousands of Iraqis; put our country into a deep financal hole which has resulted in this latest great depression? You have much to say which is worth hearing; but we all need to take more care in how we talk to eachother, even when we sit on different sides of the political asile. ‘nuf said.

  77. robert moeller permalink
    July 31, 2009 12:17 pm

    come on curt, “Our stinking president….” how about our stinking president who lied to us and led us into two unjustified wars, destroyed the english language, broke more laws than bonnie and clyde. how about that president? as for ortiz, he cheated, as did probably a majority of MLB players during the the last 15-20 years. and the only reason schilling didn’t use steroids or HGH was simple– he understood that you actually would have to work out to derive and benefit from them. better to show up season after season out of shape, less effort…

  78. July 31, 2009 12:27 pm

    Its time for Curt to stop being a hypocrite. Be a man, acknowledge that you were aware that your teammates were juicing, give back the rings you fraudulently won and request the bloody sock to be returned from the hall of fame. Unless you do these actions, you are just as guilty as Ortiz and Ramirez. Bunch of no good cheaters that were protected by George Mitchell.

  79. Basketball Jones permalink
    July 31, 2009 12:47 pm

    @Brian

    You’re right, Curt and Ortiz are friends, but what’s that got to do with anything? Either you are morally consistent or not. If my friend robs a bank, do you honestly think I’m going to defend him for the sake of friendship? Will bank robbery suddenly become a gray area full of subtle distinctions? Hell no! I’m going to reassess my opinion of him–that’s all anyone is asking for, consistency. Curt (rightly so) spoke out vigorously against previous cheaters, and I admired that. But reading this drivel, I realize now he’s no better than any other moral relativist. Disgusting. And his lame political whining is the icing on the cake…Clinton’s lies about adultery are worse than Bush’s lies (“fixing facts” to Blair), that’s been a wingnut perversion forever…why expect consistency there, either?

  80. james permalink
    July 31, 2009 12:48 pm

    “It never crossed my mind to go that [steroid] route,” said Schilling. “I will tell you in the last two years, I certainly gave merit to the thought that coming back from all the stuff I had to come back from, that there was opportunities afforded me to go on HGH and to see people that could make that happen. I never thought about it for more than five or 10 seconds for a lot of reasons that had nothing to do with baseball.”

    Pretty strong words for someone so opposed to cheating. Curt, I wonder if you ever did more than “think about it”.

    Either way, turn in your rings. 2 of them are tainted with cheating. The 2001 ring is still good since there was no ban on steroids in baseball, even though you had a juicer on the team. SO far as tainting the last 10-15 yrs not so fast. Steroids were not against the rules of baseball prior to the 2002 season. I suggest asterisks for the last 6 years and any subsequent years where cheaters are caught.

  81. July 31, 2009 12:51 pm

    Curt, you are a big time hypocrite!! Please tell us everything now. Tell us how Manny and Ortiz weren’t the only users. Please tell us how you were addicted to roids. Please tell us how you brought over the roid culture from Roid Central, Arizona, where you and Luis Gonzalez would inject each other in the ass right before each game. Please tell us everything you know. We’ll be much more lenient on you if you come clean. Or you could continue being a giant two-faced mouth that has lost it’s credibility yet continues to spew.

  82. Lauren permalink
    July 31, 2009 12:56 pm

    Are you going to answer the questions about Arroyo now too, Curt?

  83. Max permalink
    July 31, 2009 1:33 pm

    Well said Curt.

  84. Jose permalink
    July 31, 2009 1:48 pm

    Any Red Sox, including Shilling, that doesn’t give back the *04 and *07 rings are cheaters too. Don’t celebrate that ring knowing that the 2 guys that carried that team, because the others didn’t carry that team (not even Curt or his bloddy sock), cheated.

    You’re all cheaters!!! Give the ring back you couldn’t have done it without cheating!!!

    Those rings were supplied by drugs! Say NO!

  85. Joe permalink
    July 31, 2009 1:51 pm

    “steroids is cheating… and winning without honor is not winning”
    -curt schilling (200 game cheater)

    guilt by association.

    two wrongs don’t make a right, so it doesn’t matter if your opponents were cheating right along with you or not. all of your wins are tainted… especially the world series. hero to zero.

  86. Tim McGrew permalink
    July 31, 2009 2:46 pm

    They need to burn this list. It was confidential and names were not supposed to be tied to samples. They need to get rid of it and move on. It would be like testing in some company to see how many workers drink at home. Then a year later put out that so and so is a addict and gets suspended or fired over it. JUST STOP THIS CRAP AND MOVE ON !!!!!!!

  87. Steve permalink
    July 31, 2009 3:30 pm

    Hey Curt

    What was your position in testing during the 2001 labor negotiations? I am remembering that were a union guy all the way and assuming that you were against it, but if I am wrong, tell me.

    Are you willing to have your 2003 test result disclosed and have the sample retested like Bonds’ was? Until yesterday, your teammate Ortiz was talking the talk, so we really do not know.

  88. Brian permalink
    July 31, 2009 3:46 pm

    “The hard part is that it’s turning into a situation where we are seeing every single GREAT player in the past 10 years caught”

    Actually here are three players who have not, as far as we know, tested positive for steroids: Albert Pujols, Scott Rolen,and Jim Edmonds, all great players over the last 10 years, all members of the 2004 Cardinals team that lost to the Red Sox in the World Series.

    Does this mean that neither Pujols, Rolen, nor Edmonds are tainted? Of course not. Perhaps they just weren’t caught (or were caught but not leaked).

    Does this mean, in a world without steroids, that the ’04 Cards would’ve beaten the ’04 Sox? Of course not. The Cards got swept in 4 games — you’d have a pretty hard time making that case.

    But it does make you wonder what kind of self-denial you’ve gotta have to merely “laugh” when someone asks if you judge the accomplishments of the ’04 Sox any differently in light of recent revelations.

  89. Jeff permalink
    July 31, 2009 6:20 pm

    Get your timeline straight. Clinton lied well before Raffy. So much before Raffy that it makes your reference look desperate and lazy. How hackneyed is it to bring politics into this discussion anyway? I guess when you won the World Series you shouted “Mission Accomplished” just like George Bush on the aircraft carrier? Give back your rings Curt. And quit throwing rocks when you live in a glass mansion.

  90. July 31, 2009 6:58 pm

    Would you say Sen. Mitchell is a total moron, or just half a moron for not being able to sniff out the rampant steroid use in the red sox clubhouse right under his nose (ortiz, manny confirmed, arroyo, damon, pedro rumoured) and only able to see the use in the Yankees clubhouse? What about gammons, who is first to point out the yankees cheaters or call yankee stadium a “joke”? Would he be considered an embicile, or does he get a pass because of the brain tumor?

  91. Ron permalink
    July 31, 2009 7:34 pm

    Reading these posts, I’ve noticed several that refer to the “curse” that was lifted in 2004. The “curse” always puzzled me. A team makes a poor deal years ago and suddenly all subsequent failure is somehow correlated? Do we say the Pirates are cursed for letting go of Bonds? How about the Falcons and Brett Favre? What about the (Charlotte) Hornets trading Kobe rights for Vlade Divac? No, we recognize them as bad deals–simple. But now I think I understand “the curse.” It never was about the Red Sox. It was about Red Sox fans. They invented it. They wallowed in it. They savored it. And here’s the ultimate irony–apparently Red Sox fans really are cursed. To have to deal with this now must be awful….and just a little funny to any of us who’ve been stuck in an airport lounge at Logan during October.

  92. Dana Kiecker permalink
    July 31, 2009 8:09 pm

    Ed,

    Thats “Hall of Famer” Peter Gammons to you.. hes washed more balls then Tito.

    Smoltz looking great tonight Shill.. must be fastball location .. LOL!!

  93. Dave permalink
    July 31, 2009 8:16 pm

    Hey to everyone who thinks that every team in baseball doesn’t have players juicing. Your all niave as can be. Baseball first and foremost has become a business, big business with millions of dollars at stake. people don’t pay to go see professionals play small ball, they want to see 700′ walkoff homeruns. The owners and players turn a blind eye because it puts green in thier wallets. Until baseball has a salary cap and mandatory testing will this be an different. Manny tested positive; suspended for 50 games and they have dubbed LA “MANNYWOOD”, sickening. Everyone is good with this when thier team is winning and act shocked when they discover years later that the miraculous stats put up are tainted. There should be a pre 1990 HOF for those players that worked and produced from thier own ability.

  94. Tleatherma permalink
    July 31, 2009 9:17 pm

    Everyone had to realize this guy was using. The Twins cut him and lets say 20 teams passed on him. Twenty teams worse then the Red Sox that is how the waiver wire works. Then all of a sudden he hooks up with the Sox and he is the best clutch hitter ever seen. His partner in all of this is traded and he goes in a funk and slump. HHHHHHMMMMM. I am so tired of giving the benefit of the doubt to these guys. I am so tired of hearing well he tested positive then but he was clean for the rest of the time. He is a cheat just like Bonds and the rest.

  95. Norm C permalink
    July 31, 2009 9:32 pm

    CURT…… ONE Question… FOR THE RECORD… HAVE YOU EVER, EVER IN YOUR CAREER, USED PEDs? EVER! I’m NOT just asking about prescribed Meds either.

    No

  96. Norm C permalink
    July 31, 2009 9:41 pm

    Last thing… I want to thank you ALL (RedSox Team of 04 and ALL of MLB Players), my son (12 years old) has thrown away his # 34 jerseys/shirts. I hate the fact more that I wasted hard earn money for the stuff to be thrown away in the trash. At least a 12 year old kid knows what PEDs are and what a cheat is and knows right from wrong. Why can’t you (MLB). I offered to buy him another Sox jersey of ANY player and he said “NO”. Thanks again… for breaking MY 12 year old heart and every other kids and fans heart. 2004 & 2007 is erased in my Hearts/Eyes & Life FOREVER. Maybe the “Curse of the Bambino (Ruth)” lives on.

  97. Andrew permalink
    July 31, 2009 11:45 pm

    Go away. No one in Boston or anywhere else cares what you think. Seriously, stop reading this and go.

  98. Bryan H permalink
    August 1, 2009 12:01 am

    Wow. Just wow.

    Reality check: This is CURT’S Blog. He is entitled to his opinion. He has the exclusive right to express said opinion how he sees fit. I find it laughable that anybody try to say otherwise. How many of you people out there harbor any biases? If you say none, I don’t believe you in the least. It STILL also hasn’t been proven that Ortiz did steroids, just that there was a banned substance in his bloodstream. Doesn’t mean it’s a PED and I refuse to believe it until I hear something concrete from a source more reliable than what we’ve got.

  99. August 1, 2009 12:50 am

    Jeff: grow up. Obviously you hate Bush, but no one cares what you think.

    Curt, as far as I am concerned, Ortiz did nothing wrong. All we have is third-hand information about a test that wasn’t a real test, that supposedly showed results we don’t know anything about. How does this reflect badly on Ortiz in any way? I don’t get it.

    (And yes, I said the same thing about everyone else who was “indicted” like this, including Yankees … except for A-Rod, but that’s different because he is The Great Satan and it is my responsibility to assume he is guilty of everything.)

    As Arroyo said, a lot of the time you didn’t know what you were getting back then. Maybe he’s lying, but I tend to think it’s pretty close to truth: there was a lot less focus on it, and most people had no reason to be diligent about it. Ortiz easily back then could’ve been positive for steroids or some other banned substance without even knowing he was taking it. It doesn’t excuse taking it — you’re responsible for what you put in you — but it doesn’t make him a hypocrite, either.

    The only wrongdoing here that we know about for sure is that someone broke the law leaking this (if it is true).

  100. mike d permalink
    August 1, 2009 6:06 am

    The 2 world championships should not be given back because a few members cheated. Why should every player who is clean suffer because of a few cheaters. The individual achievements ( Roger Clemons ) and a few others like him those should be stripped forever. I do not see how punishing an entire team would benefit or help the situation.I have to laugh how all these Yankee fans are clamouring for us to give up our championships in 04 and 07.I wonder if the Bambino tested positive if you would like to give up mumerous championships so we could stop listening to the ridiculous 1918 chant and we got 26 world championships.Papi and Manny are and forever will be frauds but I ask again why should the clean players suffer? Last thought if you want to get rid of roids in baseball make it mandatory testing for all members of every team starting in 2010 and if you test positive your out for the entire year no pay.

  101. kev permalink
    August 1, 2009 1:04 pm

    find me a team that boston beat in the 04 or 07 playoffs that did not have players using peds and i will gladly tear down my WORLD SERIES WINING stuff! Till then lets wait and listen then judge Papi fairly!!!!!!! Thanks for 04 Curt!!

  102. Jake permalink
    August 1, 2009 2:33 pm

    How about Papi giving back some of that “fat” contract he was given because of the inflated steroid numbers earned a few years ago. That goes for all of those roid guys. Gary Mathews??

  103. Babe Ruth permalink
    August 1, 2009 2:50 pm

    Oh look. Bronson Arroyo cheated too.

    Maybe you should treat these teammates of yours the same way you’ve called out everyone else on this issue.

    Oh but that would require handing back your WS Rings, wouldn’t it?

  104. Mike permalink
    August 1, 2009 5:37 pm

    FairandBalanced Says:

    July 31st, 2009 at 12:22 am
    From Curt Schilling,

    “Jose Canseco admitted he cheated his entire career,” Schilling said. “Everything he ever did should be wiped clean.

    “I think his MVP should go back and should go to the runner-up.”

    As for Palmeiro, Schilling said: “The year he tested positive, nothing he did that year should count, which I think would take away 3,000 hits for him.”

    I guess Curt will be calling Big Papi and telling him to give back all his awards and World Series Rings.

    Get em Curt!!!!

    Let me break this down for you like you are a two year old…notice in Curt’s quotes he was talking about giving back individual accomplishments and awards? Notice how he didn’t say Canseco needs to give back his rings and so do his A’s teammates? Notice that Get it. So your logic is you read Schilling’s quotes and you come up with “Give back your rings Curt..if not you are a hypocrite” Wow..you are stupid. Logic is not your strong suit my friend

  105. Mike permalink
    August 1, 2009 5:38 pm

    I think the Red Sox should have to give back all the rings they won with Manny and Big Papi and the Yankees should give back all the rings they won with AROD, Sheffield and Giambi…oh wait…nevermind

  106. I'll Still Cheer permalink
    August 1, 2009 8:13 pm

    Ok, most of you are being absolutely ridiculous…especially those saying “oh look…Bronson cheated too. Did you READ THE FREAKIN’ THING!!! He said he was taking Andro and Greenies…which were NOT on the banned list when he took them. Andro and Greenies were all AVAILABLE at GNC you nig nogs! As the article states, he stopped taking them when he heard through the grapevine that the production of these things were lax, as a lot of the products you find at GNC are not FDA approved, and he heard that some were laced with winstrol..yes, a steriod. Mother of Pearl, read the whole thing dopes! So, he said he wouldn’t be suprised if he turned up on the list, and offered insight as to how someone like Ortiz could unknowingly taken something that could turn up. Now before you bash me…I said he offered INSIGHT…not and EXPLAINATION. Yes I’m disappointed, No I’m not suprised anymore. That’s how I feel, and that’s what Curt was saying. I’m just sick and tired of all this crap! I got sick of it a long time ago…I think baseball is trying to move on, and has finally taken steps to do so. But the constant reminding of the Era is not healthy, and doesn’t help. It’s like you make a mistake at home, and your wife keeps reminding you about it, stops for a little bit, then a month or so later, brings the sh*t up for no apparent reason. I freakin’ hate that!!!

  107. Lou Gehrig permalink
    August 1, 2009 8:14 pm

    Thanks for making me laugh Curt! Such incredible hypocrisy and idiocy is rare to see 😉

    Your brains and integrity must have bled out into that sock of yours.

    Looks like that sock isn’t the only thing tainted now.

    How does lying to yourself feel hotshot?

    Lie and rationalize all you want, but deep down you and all the others know 2004 and 2007 are so very very tainted.

    Ouch. Hurts to admit it but you know it’s true.

    1918

  108. Gehrig permalink
    August 2, 2009 12:26 am

    Curt,
    One day your children are going to ask you about your accomplishments and as a father you owe it to them to be honest. When they are old enough to comprehend all the facets of your era of baseball, I hope you will be man enough to admit the truth. Every championship you have ever won was aided by the use of PED’s and I don’t see how you could explain to them that hard work and determination had resulted otherwise. You know the truth and you must feel the guilt or else you would not be human.

    -Gehrig

  109. Martin permalink
    August 2, 2009 1:54 am

    It’s quite obvious the whole 2004 NYY team was juiced “bar none”, not to mention all previous years. Red Sox down 0-3 and still take it all. The Yankees have been buying the World Series for years as Wayne proved with the Marlins. 26 rings, give me a break. If your going to throw mud and call for the return of championships then lets scrap the Hall of fame and MLB all together and move on. It’s only a game, the world has more serious problems to deal with.

  110. mike d permalink
    August 2, 2009 5:47 am

    Hey Lou Gehrig,
    So typical of spankee fans who have not and will not win a thing as long as you have # 13. I bet you can not name one other thing about 1918. I know you are now researching on google to list some things haha. The frustrated and so OLD yankees fans grasp at anything to discredit what was and forever will be the GREATEST CHOKE IN SPORTS HISTORY when least we forget 4 in a row over the empire. Hey LOU 2004 baby 2004 2004 2004 sing it oh ya 2004
    at least we were both alive and can honestly talk about what really went down oh ya it was the yankees. 2004 have a great day. 2004

  111. August 2, 2009 8:17 am

    So i guess this means papi’s not the sports hero everyone thinks he is, but he still saves many childrens lives every year in the dominican republic so he is still a real life hero. If useing PED’s help him to help children, what’s really more important here.

  112. Martin permalink
    August 2, 2009 10:29 am

    ok

  113. Steve Sullivan permalink
    August 2, 2009 10:50 am

    Curt

    you say Mr Ortiz should apologize. For what? He was a journeyman player who made millions for his family by cheating. If MLB gave a damnr Ortiz would no longer be playing. He did it for the money.

    The more important question is why you have not admitted your terrible mistake in siccing the scientifically challenged EC on the children of Mass. Is it because you like your pal Mr Chaney think that being from the moneyed class exempts you from admitting errors

    By the way I saw some of these EC kids playing ball down in Ga this summer. Give me a freaking break.

    Tell your working class pals down in Pitt that Dr Mike Marshall will be speaking at their high school baseball convention next year. Hopefully, like you, they are not too lazy to drive a few hours to educate themselves

    Steve Sullivan

  114. 2BigDee permalink
    August 2, 2009 3:04 pm

    To all those who insist that Boston’s championships were tainted, may I point out that Ortiz and Ramirez tested positive for PED’s in 2003,not 2004 or 2007.If there is no evidence that Ortiz and Ramirez tested positive in 2004 or 2007(And,so far, there is NO evidence),why would Boston’s championships be tainted.You’ve got to have evidence before you can convict, and right now, as far as 2004 qnd 2007 are concerned, you ain’t got it!!!!!

  115. August 2, 2009 3:21 pm

    I say, if someone wants to be an idiot and destroy his body for 15 minutes of fame and an extra dollar, let him. It wasn’t cheating untill someone said it was. Even in 2003 it wasn’t.

    The steroid era is no different from the amphetimine era of the 60’s and 70’s. I mean listen to Darryl Porter admit he was always on drugs during games. He’s praised as someone who “overcame” his addiction. If you are going to call using steroids cheating (as the performance enhancement drugs theory goes), then anyone who ever took a shot of cortisone is a cheater because without it, they couldn’t play that day, or for that week.

    I’ve never done drugs, but i don’t think this is necessarily cheating, even for A-Rod or Barry, or even Roger. It becomes sickening when those that are revealed to have used.. continue to deny, making fools out of themselves.

    The problem is… everyone thinks pro atheletes should be someone’s role model. Anyone hanging their hats on that… is the fool. not the players. We (or you) turn these people into role models without asking them if they want to be…

    That said… Curt should be consistent in his criticism.

  116. Wayne permalink
    August 2, 2009 5:38 pm

    The bottom line is this: no matter whose name is on the list nothing is going to be done to anyone so let’s get all the names out and get this whole thing over with and move on. This two names this month, two more a couple of months later is just ridiculous. We went through “spygate” with the Patriots and have finally moved on from that. This is not life or death, people, it’s just baseball and if you are raising your kids to look up to overpaid adults playing a kid’s game for a living, then you shouldn’t be raising kids. Raise them to look up to you.

  117. Rachel C permalink
    August 2, 2009 7:48 pm

    Every time I disagree with something Curt has to say, I read the comments and then have to become an ardent defender of the man. You are all too wrapped up in hatred and anger to even think clearly.

    Has Curt ever said that a team should return its World Series Championship because some of its players were using? No, he has never said that. He has always been VERY specific that those Individuals who were using should lose the stats and awards associated with the period in which they were using. He has said NOTHING in this post which makes him hypocritical. Basic. Reading. Comprehension. People.

    Ugh.

    And personally, I find it un-endingly hilarious that so many of you want to think that Curt took PEDs. Clearly, there is absolutely nothing he could do or say that would shake you from this, your most cherished belief. If Curt Schilling took steroids, I am the Queen of England. If Curt Schilling took steroids, I will chop off my right hand. If Curt Schilling took steroids, the comments here are well thought out and even-handed assessments.

    idiots.

  118. Lou Gehrig permalink
    August 2, 2009 8:52 pm

    Martin and Mike D…I love it! Thanks guys…Curt has gone a little quiet on the subject but your tortured rationalizations have given me more laughs 🙂

    Marty why did you put “bar none” in quotes?

    And sure, if the Yanks..wait “spankees” hahaha…very good joke Mike!! I see what you did…sp instead of y…that’s awesome…good stuff

    I love it…where was I? if the spankees, or any other team, had cheaters on it, like the Red Sox with Manny and Papi for instance …(and of course they are the only two right? I mean we know that nobody else was taking it right? even deep down we can’t admit it…right?)

    …their titles and achievements are tainted too. Any team wins a title with cheaters it’s tainted…like my man Torii Hunter knows and any sensible person not lying to himself knows.

    “yankees buying teams” the red sox show real financial restraint right?

    “at least we were both alive and can honestly talk”…?? I’m not sure what that alive part means, but I know I’m honest, and we all know you’re not.

    Hurts too much to admit the obvious irrefutable truth.

    Tainted. Cheaters never win…read schilling’s quote about victory without out honor gents.

    Haven’t stopped laughing in days 😉

    1918…not the world’s fault you were born rooting for a loser franchise…don’t take it out on us

    (and to the brilliant folks saying there is no proof of 2004 and 2007…if you’re that stupid I’m surprised you can even work a computer…right, so you believe papi and manny stopped using in 2003…stayed awesome…and then Manny decided, what the heck, I’ll start using again in 2009 for the heck of it?)

    whoo! your worse than Cubs fans

  119. Ketchup on My Sock permalink
    August 2, 2009 9:28 pm

    I figured you would flip flop. You wanted “All the names” after A-Rod came out saying he did roids. Well, now you got some more. You sit there and blast A-Rod but now it’s OK that Papi and Manny took them? You are a real loser.

  120. TheButcher permalink
    August 2, 2009 11:07 pm

    And what you Mr. Schilling? You just retired so you didn’t have to worry about your name getting leaked for using steroids.

  121. RedSox5705 permalink
    August 3, 2009 12:32 am

    Here’s what needs to be known about this. The reporters who publish these stories need to distinguish between PEDs and steroids–They aren’t neccessarily the same thing. I certainly don’t advocate the use of either, but many PEDs were and still are available at drug and supplement stores, and you can even buy some at Wal-Mart. Just because someone popped positive during that 2003 “anonymous” test doesn’t mean they were taking steroids, hGH, or something of that ilk–it could have been something as simple as Sudafed (not likely, but it is possible). Everyone piled on A-Rod–albeit unfairly at the time–because he “admitted” to using actual steroids, and his “confession” left more questions than answers. Papi has been one of my favorite Sox players, and I think that we owe it to all these players–regardless of the team they play for–to be fair and find out exactly what (or if) they really tested postive for. I’m not saying give Papi a pass, but, don’t be so quick to grab the torches and pitchforks.

  122. RedSox5705 permalink
    August 3, 2009 12:37 am

    Oh, and a note to Curt Schilling–I thought you have been a really good player throughout your career, but you need to tread carefully here. Pretty much every player who has taken such a harsh stance on steroid/PED use going back to when the infamous bottle of Andro was found in Big Mac’s locker in ’98 has either admitted to using PEDs, has tested positive for PEDs, or there’s a whole lot of credible evidence that they have used (or do use) PEDs. Not accusing you of doing so, but, I think you should be mindful of that.

  123. Martin permalink
    August 3, 2009 1:50 am

    Hey “Lou”,
    Thanks for the laughs. I knew this would get you frothing at the mouth. Just stirring the pot a little. Yankee fans are so predictable.
    Wayne made the statement that the world series was up to the highest bidder and someone called him on it. So he proved his point with the Marlins, end of story. Oh by the way, a dead guys opinion doesn’t count for much. Maybe you should have the gonads to use your real name.

  124. Martin permalink
    August 3, 2009 2:08 am

    Eric C.

  125. Paul permalink
    August 3, 2009 3:14 am

    1. To everyone saying that Curt should give back his rings, shut up. Curt worked harder than anyone else to help win those trophies. Also, Curt didn’t use the steroids – what sense does it make for Curt to give his rings back? In addition he cut his career short by taking on an experimental surgery to help give some semblance of stability back to the rotation. You can say what you want about Papi or Manny, but Curt did nothing less than give his all and more.
    2. Curt’s a hypocrite? What is he supposed to do? He’s their former teammate and friend. Would you turn your back on your friend when troubled times hit? It doesn’t matter whether papi caused the troubled times or not, the point is they are here, and all Curt can do is try and be supportive at this time. I wasn’t aware selling out your friends in their times of need is something that reputable people do. I’m hurt by what happened, and I say out papi and everyone else on that list, but then again those people are not my friends, they’re just baseball players on TV.

  126. John permalink
    August 3, 2009 10:18 am

    Every team in the major leagues had players using steroids. We know Jose Canseco, at the very least, was using them the whole time he was in the majors, so I guess we should just delete every record, statistic and championship in baseball since September of 1985, just to be on the safe side.

    Or maybe we should get past all this crap and just accept that people did it, and you can’t change it now. The only thing you can do is try to get the steroids out of the game going forward, just like baseball worked to get the cocaine out of the game in the 1980s.

  127. Merrill permalink
    August 3, 2009 11:09 am

    Lord, so much more to worry about in this World. Everyone seems to lie to us now a days, why are we acting so “shocked??” I love the Sox, and in no way should I have to deal with the consequences of what David did. 2002- World Series MVP Troy Glaus- was a Roid user, so I want the Angels to give back their World Series??? Lame. Enough of this talk. Time will pass and people will get over this. It does not change for me how I feel about 2004 and 2007 at all. I like to look at the big picture. WE are a society who jumps all over people, with out looking in the mirror at ourselves and what we are doing in this world (and no, i know many of you don’t do steroids, that is not my point).
    If you put all your marbles into Ortiz’s life and career, well then silly you….

    Thank you Curt for having this site.

  128. Yankeesfan permalink
    August 3, 2009 12:51 pm

    Mr Schilling:

    As a lifelong Yankee fan and admitted Red Sox “hater”, I still like to be unbiased with certain issues. I for one do not think the Red Sox 04 and 07 Series wins are tainted more than anyone else’s in the era. That being said, I have lived through what I percieve as your Yankee bashing comments and feel you absolutely are being soft on your own former teammates as well as hypocrytical to boot. You insult the Yankees and Yankee fans alike by saying how you would never play for them. I have never heard anyone in “Yankeeland” ever mention they wouldn’t have wanted Curt Schilling to pitch for them. I do admire and respect what Theo Epstein has done with the Red Sox and do agree that the whole list of users should come out to ease everyones burden. But the obvious consenus even in Red Sox Nation is thought you are being extremely hypocrytical.

  129. clemens owns you permalink
    August 3, 2009 2:35 pm

    hey curt..you called for the clemens to practically be hanged when he was outed, same with a-rod. now that your superstars have been outed, it’s not big deal. you and your bloody sock are the biggest joke in baseball. you’ll never be half the pitcher roger clemens was, whether he used steroids or not. you’re a disgrace to the game of baseball and hypocrite. wear your tainted rings proudly curt, for they are the only thing that you have left..you’ve already lost your credibility, validity, respect from others, and you never had HOF stuff. so wear them loud and proud you pompuous idiot.

    ketchup, aisle 4.

  130. August 3, 2009 3:14 pm

    Flipitty, Flopitty, Floo

  131. Bob Rishar permalink
    August 3, 2009 4:33 pm

    Wow Curt I shudder to think what you ARE teaching your children after your record on this issue. Do you ever take a break from talking and listen and/or think?-or at the very least address the inconsistencies in your statements on steroids over the years?
    Let’s review once more-You have gone from commenting about how you can no longer smack teammates on their ass because that’s where they inject the steroids to calling Jose Canseco a liar but otherwise clamming up in front of Congress to calling for certain players to return their awards because of steroids to thanking Donald Fehr for helping it to continue to laughing at the notion that your team’s championship is tainted due to steroids. Sadly it’s all there for your kids to read. Sure looks like Daddy was a big mouthed hypocrite who compounded his failure to speak up when it mattered by running a website where he could prove for posterity that he was(is?) frequently full of crap, stupid, or just plain nuts-or some combination of all three!
    Again I must ask when will you be man enough to publicly apologize to Jose Canseco?

  132. Bob Rishar permalink
    August 3, 2009 5:18 pm

    Rachel C-no Curt has not said that teams should return their championship rings but he has called for players to return their individual awards due to steroid use.
    If you accept that a team’s succeeds at least in part because of individual accomplishments then why wouldn’t the team’s accomplishments be tainted also due to it’s star players testing positive?
    All we are asking is that Curt be consistant in his opinions on this issue. He shouldn’t take the position that users should return their awards if he is not prepared to return any championship awards he received due in part to his teammates performance in attaining those awards by cheating. Don’t forget that Curt called for this first-we are just trying to get him to either retract it or follow it through to it’s logical conclusion. Personally I think Curt was an idiot to say it in the first place-but changing his tune when it hits close to home?! Wow.

  133. Five Katz permalink
    August 3, 2009 5:51 pm

    The era was the era. For NYY fans to show up here and gloat is silly. After all so far Clemens, A-Rod, Andy, Sheffield and Jason Giambi have been outed.

    For RS to think the RS were immune to this was silly. And David was always a prime suspect. It was to me more shocking that Manny Ramirez with his incredible work habits had been using. And being in denial I assumed he started in LA to get his big pay day and his stats were soooo much better in LA that made sense.

    This is an old story at this point. The press hammered it hard because MLB and the MLBPA were doing nothing for so many years. But that time has since passed. Where was the outrage when NFL players got caught last year? Manny’s 2009 failed test is a fresh story but the identity of any of 100 plus from 2003 testing is old news.

    As for the trolls that come here and shout out such variable bits of wisdom as “catchup sock” and “you stole your last $8M” get some new material and/or a life!

  134. August 3, 2009 8:27 pm

    I can’t stop laughing at the hypocrisy and overall obnoxiousness of guys like Curt Schilling. His opinions are as tainted as David Ortiz’s urine sample. I’m sure there are still plenty of names to come out. Don’t we as Sox fans ever sit back and wonder, whatever happened to Bill Mueller, Trot Nixon, Kevin Millar, etc. How did they all just suddenly disappear?(in terms of effectiveness). I think it’s time for us to be honest about our guys. They were cheating, and we just chose to ignore it. The ’04 and ’07 teams made me so happy, but I have to be honest and stop waving the pom poms. They cheated. Their most important players were caught. That’s that.

  135. joe comohoyo permalink
    August 3, 2009 8:46 pm

    Rachel C… you really ought to consider taking your nose out of Curt’s butt. How desperate are you for attention, posting your pix?

    Big Poppin’ is on the list. Manny, too.

    And Schilling makes three.

  136. lou gehrig's mother permalink
    August 3, 2009 10:42 pm

    lou, it’s time to come home, honey, your father and i are getting worried about you…

  137. Bob from VA permalink
    August 5, 2009 5:40 am

    Rachael C is one of the few on here to have a freakin’ clue. I get it though. This is a nice place for Sox haters to visit, and spew their hatred. So maybe it’s true, and Jose Canseco is right about all this. First of all, it seems to me the majority thought he was full of crap way back when, not just Schilling. Over time we learn otherwise. None of us knew 2 or 3 years ago what we now know about all this. When we say something initially with a certain amount of info, and modify it later because we know more, it DOES NOT make us hypocrites. If a week from now, Ortiz is shown to be a hardcore, needle injecting, steroid user, and liar like we all think Clemens and Bonds were, we can be harder on Ortiz. But, for now, it seems to me that Schilling’s response was about right. Some need to take off their Yankee colored glasses. P.S. – If Canseco is right, and 95% of the players over the last 20 years used PEDs, do the Sox haters out here feel that ALL the Championships should be stripped from ALL the teams? I didn’t think so!

  138. The Duke permalink
    August 5, 2009 8:50 am

    I wonder if Luis Gonzalez’s flair off the fists in 2001 game 7 would’ve cleared the infield if he wasn’t on the juice???

    Palmeiro and Ortiz were two of the most vocal, outspoken people about the plague of steroids in the game. The third is you, Curt. Hmmmmmm….

  139. Bucky Dent permalink
    August 5, 2009 11:36 am

    Curt Schilling on Jose Canseco:

    “Jose Canseco admitted he cheated his entire career,” Schilling said. “Everything he ever did should be wiped clean. I think his MVP should go back and should go to the runner-up.” (Source)

    Curt Schilling on Roger Clemens:

    “So as a fan my thought is that Roger will find a way in short order to organize a legal team to guarantee a retraction of the allegations made, a public apology is made, and his name is completely cleared,” Schilling wrote. “If he doesn’t do that then there aren’t many options as a fan for me other than to believe his career 192 wins and 3 Cy Youngs he won prior to 1997 were the end. From that point on the numbers were attained through using [performance-enhancing drugs]. Just like I stated about Jose [Canseco], if that is the case with Roger, the 4 Cy Youngs should go to the rightful winners and the numbers should go away if he cannot refute the accusations.”

    Curt Schilling on Rafael Palmeiro:

    “The year he tested positive, nothing he did that year should count, which I think would take away 3,000 hits for him.”

    Curt Schilling on Barry Bonds:

    “If you get caught using steroids, you should have everything you’ve done in this game wiped out for any period of time that you used it,” Schilling said. “A lot of players, I think, have said as much because it is cheating.”

    And now moving on to Ortiz and the Red Sox…

    Curt Schilling on whether David Ortiz’s accomplishments should be judged differently:

    That’s for you to decide. It seems to be an area of immense debate, but I am not sure how this could/should/will be resolved.

    Curt Schilling on whether Boston’s accomplishments should be judged differently:

    This makes me laugh. I have already seen the bandwagon fans start the *04 and *07 threads and remarks, people with teams who are far deeper into this than most other teams — as if this makes it all OK. Every team going back 10-15 years needs an * if you want to consider giving it to anyone.

    Got hypocrisy?

  140. Joe permalink
    August 5, 2009 2:51 pm

    You are joke Curt. No call to take away Boston’s championships? You are such a joke. No call to wipe away Manny’s and Ortiz’s accomplishments? You are a joke and you probably cheated along with them. I’ll bet all the tea in China that Luis Gonzalez’s name is on that list too, so that means you have to give up that 2001 WS Championship, right? Which means you have never won anything without cheaters surrounding you. But that’s ok now, right? Joke.

  141. Pattijor permalink
    August 5, 2009 10:55 pm

    I wonder if PEDs help people learn how to spell more gooder.

  142. Shane permalink
    August 5, 2009 11:31 pm

    It is very amusing to hear the witch calls to give back the titles of the Red Sox when the positive test took place in 2003..that’s right 2003. The Red Sox won in 04 and 07 after testing was implemented. Of course it’s typical Sox/Yankees arguments so one is not inclined to see trumpet soundings of common sense and well thought out diatribes. One of the truths that emerges admist the quagmire of steroids is the reality that many..many..many were using. That is sad , ignoble, and disheartening but true. Truthfully though it levels the playing field and in retrospect those who were clean(who was that?Schilling?Luis Rodriguez? Geno Petralli? man) can celebrate in their accomplishment and realize that the excelled against amped up bodybuilders. So many people did it that it has leveled the paridgm out and everything is parity in retrospect.
    Stripping records is foolish and impossible if you can take one guys hits you give them back to the pitcher altering WHIPs , eras, scores..jeez what a freakin mess..forget it.Bonds HR records stands..Pete Rose is the hit king no matter what the Hall of Fame tells you, Jose Canseco won an MVP, all titles (Sox, Yankees, ad infinitum)stand. It is history..no goes back in time and erases Warren G. Harding from a presidential museum, despite his scandals but we learn as we go..just as racial exclusion is an ugly Baseball axiom of the early years..shall we tinker with Ty Cobbs stats because he didn’t face all the top talent?
    No we accept it and learn from our questionable past and take our heavy bag of the past and realize just like us baseball has never been a perfect behind the scenes..sort of just like us.
    Perhaps that’s why Schilling defends his man..he stung..confused and we all are. Mark McGuire was vilified for saying”I’m not here to talk about the past.” in a way that is a new zen bit of wisdom perhaps we should accept what once was was and now we have a chance to fix what is.
    Steroids happened but thankfully now with what we learned from it they won’t slip by us again.
    That alone may make it worth it.

  143. Bubba permalink
    August 6, 2009 12:52 pm

    You sure get a lot of haters who feel obliged to attack the person whose solicited opinions they sought out, and who provides a platform for feedback. I appreciate your courgage for continuing to put your thoughts ‘out there’, even with all the filth spewers (I sure hope this is a paid gig for you).

    Re. Papi: I heard him state he wants the details, and then he will share them. I see no reason to push for an apology, since even he does not know the specifics of what he has done wrong yet. Lets try to give the guy space enough to address this properly.

    I agree, nothing is surprising these days, but on a whim, lets try to give a man who has earned the right, the benefit of a doubt before we find him guilty by association. I do not believe all 104 players on ‘the list’ to be cheaters, although some very well may be.

    Thanks for delivering as promised (2x professionally), for continuing to share your insight and opinions (expert/celebrity), and all your efforts locally/nationally for the causes you believe in (man/person…had to keep it PC dontcha know).

  144. Babe Ruth permalink
    August 6, 2009 10:13 pm

    At least not all Red Sox Fans are hypocrites

    http://www.bostondirtdogs.com/

  145. Boston Tea Bag permalink
    August 7, 2009 12:21 pm

    Curt, thank you so much for offering to give back those rings from your 2004* 2007* championships. I also would like to thank Big Papi for volunteering to suspend himself for a year. You guys are stand-up!

  146. Efrain permalink
    August 9, 2009 2:33 am

    David Ortiz, rarely have I seen an athelete so adored. You know its incredible to me that fans can still look at him the same way. For all of his helping citizens, {and he HAS done this} for all of his hugs and special handshakes, and his big toothy grins, its sad that he still just adds up to someone who had to cheat to reach the position he has come to in his career. I have no respect for him, nor admiration because what this man represents is a lie. A lie of honesty, of integrity of honor. A man who still in his “Admission” of taking “Supplements”, this guy is no better than Barry Bonds.

    This is a guy who has beat his chest claiming players should be suspended for a year for drug use, and now that HE is caught, it was “Vitamins and Supplements”. David you are now only a liar, but a coward. I was hoping better of you. Jason Giambi makes you look pathetic, at least he admitted it all. You just hide behind that Player rep Weiner, who lies everytime he opens his mouth.

    You should be ashamed Ortiz, when you look back on this years from now, and realize that your a liar, not just because you took drugs, but because when the time came to hold yourself accountable to the fans who fill your friggin pockets with money, you backed out like a coward and took the easy way out. I dont hold ill will against you, but wish you well in all things. That said, I have zero respect for you, because when your chance came to deliver the truth in the clutch, you didnt even come up to bat.

  147. Roid Sox Blues permalink
    August 9, 2009 8:52 am

    They were just vitamins, no one asked if they were injected or oral? No one asked what they were. No one asked where he bought them? Over the counter in the Dominican Republic is a lot different from Rite Aid.
    They were out to get A Rod but not Big Papi. Heavens knows we can’t do that.
    Curt, was that a ROID Stain on your sox?

  148. tony permalink
    August 10, 2009 11:42 am

    so what are you going to do when your name comes out on that list if it happens because most of this is all rumor at first i always knew that ortiz who suddenly became a stud took PED’s i think your name would make sence as well. oh and ortiz took vitamins and supplements that is the most bull crap excuse ever oh yeah maybe in the DR testosterone is considered a supplement. its funny how many players production went down after the ban……..sosa, ortiz, yours and many others

  149. Landon permalink
    August 13, 2009 5:02 pm

    Curt Schilling, you sir took banned substances.
    I guess It was too much for Bromson Arroyo to keep it inside himself but he now testified how you introduced him to “pills” of unknown companies to keep him alert back in 2006.
    Your failure as a player will be remembered because without steroids and banned substances, You sir along with Randy Johnson would have been nothing.
    I hope when you read the “USA Today”‘s article on a 1on1 interview with bromson arroyo, you don’t get a heart attack.

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Curt Schilling's Official Blog

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