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The most explosive 24 hours in the games history.

December 13, 2007

I hate to think it is, but I don’t think there is any other way to look at it. Not since the Black Sox scandal of the early 20th century has this sport had to endure what it will starting at 2pm EST.

I am hoping no one I know or respect shows up as a name on this report but I am feeling like that’s wishful thinking.

There will be no shortage of media opinions, castigating, berating and blaming all the names involved. Just remember that this will be coming from the very same people who, like many, turned a blind eye to what many of us believed when we were smack dab in the middle of all the things the Mitchell Report will say.

I can  still remember Pedro Gomez, a writer in Arizona, telling me that he specifically ‘knew of 4 guys in this clubhouse that are on steroids’. When I asked him to name them he wouldn’t, but he assured me he knew for a fact. I have yet to see him write an article with those names included. There were many members of the media making these same claims, I’m curious to know what they are going to say now.

I certainly am not blameless. I had opinions like many other people, but I also had a closer view of what was happening. I can say with a very clear conscience, to this day I still have never seen anyone inject or ingest HGH, or steroids. Do I think I know former teammates that may have been? Sure I do. Can I tell you with no uncertainty who that was? No.

And at the end of the day, from everything I hear, that’s what will be contained in the body of this report. Much speculation, conversation, and hearsay, as to what people saw and thought. I don’t believe there will be much hard evidence on anyone mentioned. I don’t think for a second that absolves many that will be named.

Look, if you ordered HGH or steroids, in your name, and there is documentation to prove that you did, please do us all a favor and admit you made a mistake and move on. If you needed it for medical reasons then I am sure you can back that up through your physician if you choose to.

I’m past tired of  hearing everything but “I screwed up” or “Ya I made a mistake, I apologize”.

This is a pretty damn forgiving country. We are all about giving people second chances. The quicker anyone guilty is accountable the quicker we can all move on and hopefully make this thing go away, and fix what needs to be fixed.

But I also think there are going to be players named purely on speculation and opinion and that to me will be the true sadness in all of this. I don’t think it’s a reach to say that regardless of the context in which your name might be mentioned in this report, people will lump every name into one big ball of guilty by association, and that won’t be right.

Whatever the outcome I think it’s safe to say that the foreseeable  future of this game is going to be rough for everyone involved. The only solution will be to have the MLBPA and MLB itself agree on a course of action that will eliminate the potential of this ever happening again.

180 Comments leave one →
  1. December 13, 2007 1:18 pm

    The rumored list has Varitek on it and I sure hope that isn’t true at all.

  2. laborinvainer permalink
    December 13, 2007 1:21 pm

    Why speculate as to what report will say? Why damn it before it comes out. Why not WAIT until it comes out rather than prejudging it?

  3. lamprejm permalink
    December 13, 2007 1:23 pm

    The report is over 400 pages long and I feel that anyone who they questioned is initially going to get thrown under the massive figurative bus that is the mitchell report. HGH and steroids are being dealt with, which is a huge step in the right direction and necessary for the sport. Obviously without subpoena power they are not going to have as much hard evidence as I think a lot of the media would love, but never-the-less the media is going to run with this topic due to the fact that it comes during a lull in the sports year.

    I hope that the MLBPA and MLB can find an honest way to move forward and retain the dignity of the game I love so much. I also hope that even during this time the players are able to still enjoy the holidays and spend it with those they love and care for. As you said its a lot of speculation and agents/press managers are going to have a hectic holiday trying to reassure clients and teams of those who are incorrectly or indefinitely linked to this report.

    Judging by the time you released this blog, you’re refreshing ESPN.com , drudgereport or other media outlets to try and get an idea of what is happening… have you also heard from agents/team managers about what to expect as well?

  4. calvinballer permalink
    December 13, 2007 1:25 pm

    Well said. I learned early in life that we all make mistakes but how we react to them tells the truth about character. Admitting mistakes, accepting responsibility and dealing appropriately with the punishment is a must. Sidestepping them will only cause problems to linger, or never go away. Take Pete Rose for example. He may have been allowed back in the game one day and possible even The Hall but he chose the wrong path AFTER the fact. Same with Vick. His sentence would have been lighter in the eyes of the law had he been forthright from the get go. Same with his situation with Goodell. He was not forthright and I am sure Roger will weigh that into his decision in 2009.

    I truly hope, as you mentioned similarly, that names will not be those of players I idolize. Unfortunately, I fear there will be some. It is part of the recent history of the game and hopefully this will be the first step towards changing the current “status quo”.

    2008 back-to-back World Champs!!

  5. December 13, 2007 1:28 pm

    Curt, some are saying that the guys on the list “made a mistake.” I disagree. They made a conscious decision to cheat – and to break the law. I love this game more than I love the players. I have had my favorites, which is completely natural – but I fear that some of those are in this report. I refuse to be hypocritical and will state that I will boo every single one of these guys who take the field. They cheated.

    This has much more of an impact than the Black Sox scandal because this affect – if not every team – nigh to every team…. and multiple seasons.

    This affects society and these men owed all of us better than that. MLB owed us better. MLB owners and the Commissioner are complicit in this, imo. They knew that this was going on and after _the_ strike thought that fans would only be drawn back in by the long ball. Players wanted to play longer and wanted to heal faster. We have created a huge problem and it sickens me.

    I love the Boston Red Sox more than any one player and it sickens me that any of our guys are on that list…

    ToofarawayfromBoston
    (Chaiah)

  6. ilovebigpapi permalink
    December 13, 2007 1:30 pm

    I sincerely hope that rumored name isn’t true. I will be so very disappointed. I am realistic but still “naive” enough I guess to be heartbroken.

    Indeed this is the time for all involved to put a stop to this.

  7. December 13, 2007 1:30 pm

    I think that’s very clear thinking on the subject, and it’s terrific you’re so candid about it. As a longtime baseball fan, I am thrilled that you’ve kept up this blog.

    I also happen to agree with you on this topic. I’m stunned at how often in this country people fail to take responsibility for their actions, at every level of society. Those people who appear to feel like they have so much to lose if they admit any kind of fallibility (a condition of being human) would probably be surprised to find out you’re right about forgiveness. And it really is as easy as saying, “Sorry, I screwed up.” Of course, there are always consequences, but they knew that when they made the mistake to begin with.

    I’m glad the Mitchell report is coming out, if only to put it behind us.

  8. dylansharek permalink
    December 13, 2007 1:30 pm

    I will be devastated if Griffey Jr. is mentioned in this report. He is the one true “superstar” from 90’s baseball that I whole heartedly respect besides guys like yourself, Gwynn, Ripken, Biggio, etc. The guys who seemed like they loved the game.

  9. smokathisa permalink
    December 13, 2007 1:31 pm

    curt….. Im not sure what that list will included but should the players really be shot down and be hated… No I dont think so, I think this should all be put in the past and the players that are involved just say yea I did it I;m not on it any more, and if they do that them just let them be.. Baseball is the greastest game ever played and if anything its better now than it ever was.
    Brian

  10. thefooze permalink
    December 13, 2007 1:31 pm

    I’m damn glad we have honorable people such as yourself in sports… As a fan I will no longer root for anyone on the list, even if they are on the Sox (Ive stopped cheering for Rodney Harrison) I just cannot respect someone who knowingly cheats

  11. December 13, 2007 1:50 pm

    Agreed. This will be a media firestorm. But how do you get your name in the report? In some cases, isn’t it just from someone else naming you? It seems pretty haphazard. Having your name on that list– or not having your name on that list– doesn’t necessarily mean much.

    Personally, I blame the union more than anyone else for this problem, because they’ve won every labor dispute in my lifetime, and they dug their heels in on this one, citing privacy concerns. But there sure was a conspiracy of silence that extended into ownership, the media, and even fans. I was irritated with the reporter who wrote about McGwire’s locker full of substances during the 1998 season. I don’t look too prescient on that one.

    Now it’s too late to figure out exactly what happened in the past, so we get this mess. Maybe I’ll be proven wrong, but I don’t see what purpose it serves to name names when we don’t have proof of anything.

  12. December 13, 2007 1:53 pm

    “we all make mistakes”

    A mistake implies that one is not making a conscious decision. These players – whomever are on the list – did not make a “mistake.” The consciously chose to do something that they knew was wrong.

  13. bostonbakedbean permalink
    December 13, 2007 2:03 pm

    Curt,
    I could not agree more with you, while all baseball fans most certainly realize there are speculations that have been around for quite some time, and while i hope it does not disgrace the wonderful game that ive grown up loving, ive played and watched baseball as far back as i can remember, and i feel aweful sitting here watching the clock waiting for them to deface my childhood hero’s and guys that millions of kids look up to everyday
    Its a sad day for baseball and everyone involved , and i would like to add that players who used HGH for medicinal purposes (i.e. Rick Ankiel, Paul Byrd, ect..) please do not lump them into the likes of whomever comes out of this looking like a cheater of a jerk-off.
    Thank you for letting me voice my opinion

  14. syphax permalink
    December 13, 2007 2:06 pm

    1. I wish Mitchell had resigned from the Red Sox before doing this. There’s the appearance of a conflict of interest. Mitchell seems like a stand-up guy to me, but there is an appearance nonetheless. Now, he almost has to name some Red Sox to avoid partisan accusations.

    2. I’m a cycling fan. It’s had a culture of drugs for years, and has spent the past decade trying to clean itself up. It’s not nearly there yet, but it seems to be turning a corner- a lot of teams have signed up for next year with a pretty good third-party comprehensive control program, which should be much, much harder to beat than the existing testing.

    The bottom line is that cycling has suffered a lot over the last decade, and there’s been a lot of carnage. But it’s such a great sport, that it will survive, and I hope will be for the better.

    Baseball will also survive, come what may. It is still the American Pastime.

    The sooner the powers that be crack down on this sort of cheating (or, change the rules, all mutants welcome- at least it would be open and honest) in a meaningful way, the better.

  15. December 13, 2007 2:08 pm

    curt,

    i’m sure (if one of our boys is mentioned) there will be a lot of sox fans out there, after hearing from the mitchell report, saying “i knew it, i knew (some yankee player) was using them. what an ass.” then two minutes later saying “well, it’s only speculation. there’s no way (one of the bosox) ever injected anything.”
    it comes down to this: if you cheat, you cheat. fess up, but we can’t forget that there were/are those out there who are cutting the checks for these players all while turning the other way when the steroids come into play. i’ll be trying to stay as objective as i can about this. and if one of my boys did do something, i’m sure i’ll defend him. it just comes down to it being sad, that some players felt the need to have to harm themselves in that way, just to be recognized. if you make it to even the minors, you’re and amazing freakin’ athlete.

  16. ppiddy permalink
    December 13, 2007 2:11 pm

    It’s interesting to note how you don’t bring up the fact that Mitchell is a Director of the Red Sox; that conflict of interest is DISGUSTING.

  17. brussell21 permalink
    December 13, 2007 2:15 pm

    “This is a pretty damn forgiving country. We are all about giving people second chances. The quicker anyone guilty is accountable the quicker we can all move on and hopefully make this thing go away, and fix what needs to be fixed.”

    Huh? You’re kidding, right? To forigve requires the likes of Bonds, Sosa and Mark McGwire while lying to our faces when it’s plain they’ve helped to destroy the sport for their financial gain is idiotic.

    Why would you want to forgive the likes of these guys? Especially Bonds and Sosa? Bonds himself has done more to denigrate the sport than any human being in it’s history.

    These guys, especially the above mentioned, have taken a gigantic wizz in our face and I for one won’t say,”Please sir may I have another”.

    Is it any wonder soccer is ascendent and Baseball-AMERICA’S SPORT-is dying a slow death?

  18. syphax permalink
    December 13, 2007 2:31 pm

    Wow, did scout Mark Delpiano have Gagne right (page 219), or what?

    (I understand if this comment gets dinged; this is probably not the best forum to gossip about the report)

  19. thedsmmaniac permalink
    December 13, 2007 2:35 pm

    I wonder how much Mitchell stood to gain from this?(financiallyand otherwise)
    This “report” is such utter Bull*hit, things in baseball are only going to
    get worse. Of course the media just loves this…

    🙄 🙄 🙄

  20. December 13, 2007 2:39 pm

    It’s very very nice to see that no active members of the Red Sox 40-man roster are on there although it didn’t come as a surprise to see Eric Gagne on there. Brendan Donnelly was a surprise to the list and I wonder if the front office knew he’d be on that list and wasn’t offered a contract for that reason.

    Looking forward to your thoughts Curt.

  21. tara1010 permalink
    December 13, 2007 2:40 pm

    I just scanned the report. Tek’s name is not on it.

  22. captainavalanche permalink
    December 13, 2007 2:53 pm

    After downloading the 400 page pdf of this report, I used the search tool to find references to the two most heart breaking names on that suspect early list. For the recrod, the PDF search tool found no references to the following names or letter sequences:
    -varitek
    -tek
    -vari
    -pujols
    -albert
    -pujol
    The only Jasons listed were Jason Grimsley and Jason Giambi, according to this tool.
    Lets hope this toll is accurate, because I don’t really want to read through this whole thing.
    After all, I have to spend my time fighting the evil Dr. Melt.

  23. soxfc permalink
    December 13, 2007 2:57 pm

    Toofar, a mistake in this context would be a mistake in judgment.

    I am so relieved that the inclusion of Tek was just a rumor – as far as I’m concerned/as far as I can tell, the man is the epitome of integrity.

  24. December 13, 2007 3:00 pm

    I think that this situation has been so overblown in media and sports etc I’m glad that this report may finally bring some closure to all of this “steroid talk”. When McGuire and Sosa battled it out in ’98 “Andro” was advertised and endorsed by MLB players and was not a banned substance. Many players utilized the supplements, vitamins, shakes and injections that medical science has produced over the last 20 years. The “anabolic steroid” use I have a hard time forgiving for, since it was clearly banned. All the newer “designer steroids” utilize I have less of a problem with but do not condone them. It is in the competitive nature of sport to maximize your playing ability at all times, and unfortunately for decades cheating in ALL sports has been a part of it. From spitballs, stealing signs, to steroids there have always been players willing to do whatever it takes to maximize their performance. It stinks that this has all come to a congressional investigation dictating to the game who has cheated.

    Since 2002 the game has banned substances that were previously okay. So McGuire and those players like him to use products once legal that now are not, are followed by a shadow that is somewhat unjust. During this “transitional” era of the game, it is unfortunate that both players who tried to do things right and “cheaters” may be looked at in the same light. I really don’t care that much about steroids and HGH, I think it sucks, but I also feel that the issues of this are getting blown way out of wack, if the players in MLB used products to the level that can be assumed, it seems to me the playing field just elevated in performance across the board. I know the Babe did it on beer & hot dogs, so they say but had the Babe played in the generation we all live in now we may have seen steroid use of some sort by the greatest player to ever play the game. But those are unanswered scenarios. Professional athletes compete..period. They also want to always be the best player they can be at all times. All athletes do. Put players of the past did not have the technological advancements in medicine that we have now. Do we now put an asterisk next to a pitcher who recovers from tommy john surgery? Because in the 30’s that ended a career. Knee replacements? Come on where does it stop? If you break the current rules as they are set now you should be punished. I understand and agree, but before these rules were set can we vilify players who used? I think not, it’s time to move on and realize the purity of athleticism in the US is gone, what do we do when a player has a robotic arm or leg? Technology along with time changes elements of sport immensely. I think we need to move on and I’m sure we will, it is not a good day for baseball and will occupy news and media outlets for weeks, but players need to go out and play the game like they always have and fans will go watch the games like they always have, but sports have changed with the times and not all for the good.

    Baseball is still the greatest sport in the world to me and always will be. I look forward to moving on and getting back to enjoying the game and now we all no from this day forward what is legal and what is not. Well until the next thing……..

  25. December 13, 2007 3:03 pm

    As far as the hall of fame by the way, let’s just start a “Slim Shady” wing and put Bonds, Pete Rose and all the guys who are questionable into the Hall of Fame but in the wing, where everyone knows the character may be questionable……but numbers are still numbers in baseball, and field performance has always gotten people in before, why stop now??? Just give them their own place!

  26. ange2386 permalink
    December 13, 2007 3:04 pm

    Curt’s right about second chances. If people would just stop lying and denying it, we all can get past it so much sooner. The public isn’t stupid. And no one is buying that you didn’t know it was steroids!

    I don’t hate Rodney Harrison for taking them because he admitted to it and did his time. MLB is so different. It’s too late for some of those people to do their time…

    I scrolled through the report for a while this afternoon and I wasn’t horribly shocked by it. No, Tek was not on it.

    I wonder what the players that have declined to speak about it in the past will do now. It will surely be interesting.

  27. ange2386 permalink
    December 13, 2007 3:04 pm

    Oh yeah, and I thought it was funny that Gagne was on there. Have fun playing w the Brewers! haha 😛

  28. folster86 permalink
    December 13, 2007 3:13 pm

    Tek’s name is not on it. Someone’s losing their job. Of course it was a reporter from New York too.

  29. syphax permalink
    December 13, 2007 3:17 pm

    Hey Yankees, the 2003 Red Sox called, they want a do-over.

    2003 highlights:

    Clemens: 17*-9 (WP*, Game 3 ALCS, ND, Game 7 ALCS)
    Pettite: 21*-8 (WP*, Game 2 ALCS, LP, Game 6 ALCS)
    Giambi: 41* HR, 107* RBI (2* HR, Game 7 ALCS)

    Karma’s a bitch, I suppose.

  30. bobbyo7 permalink
    December 13, 2007 3:17 pm

    Curt, Theo is named as a GM who brought in two platers (Donnelly and Gagne) even though he knew that they were doing steriods. In my mind…just as bad as a player doing roids.

    Your thoughts?

  31. mikejacobsesq permalink
    December 13, 2007 3:40 pm

    I saw Eric Gagne listed. It proves my hypothesis that steroids aren’t performance enhancing.

  32. two2coins permalink
    December 13, 2007 3:52 pm

    Was there ever any doubt that Tek wasn’t gonna be named in the report? Truthfully, i was most surprised by Tejada and Clemens…i mean, Clemens is a hall-of-famer..

    what happens now? do they just move forward and incorporate a new drug policy, or do they now backtrack and try to figure everything out? the next few months will be interesting, to say the least..

  33. maranara permalink
    December 13, 2007 3:52 pm

    Schill – as always, thank you for sharing your thoughts on the report. I was wondering your thoughts as a player about the fact that it is now clear that there has not always been an even playing field. Some of the players named have pitched against you (and perhaps gained an edge from the drugs) or hit home runs off of you (when that may have been drug-fueled as well). I hope that when you have a chance you will share some player insight on this.

    Thanks so much – I so enjoy your blog, even when we don’t agree. 🙂

    happy holidays!

  34. dhughes permalink
    December 13, 2007 3:52 pm

    I hate to have to say this, but as a Sports Historian I think its necessary….

    With the names of all of the roster players who were members of the Yankees 1990’s WS run listed in the Mitchell report, serious attention has to be payed to those series results. I agree with Curt that this is the most pressing issue in baseball since the 1919 Black Sox Scandal, and there should be some type of footnote placed on those championships.

    This disturbs me, as there were many players on those teams who were not cheaters. However, using the list, one can scenario a point where nearly half of the players batting or on the field for the Yankees in a WS inning were cheating.

    Does this warrant an asterisk next to those Titles? Perhaps is this a serious enough issue for those Titles to be taken away?

    I do not want to be sensationalist, but these are question i feel must be answered.

  35. theross67 permalink
    December 13, 2007 3:55 pm

    Let us all remember all that Roger Clemens has done for the game… He was a great pitcher before he started using. his record may have vastly improved post 1997 but taking into account the lack of talent in the Red Sox bullpen during the mid 90’s, and the lack of good talent on the team in general, his numbers were still very good. I have been a Clemens fan scince i have been four years old. I will not stop admiring him not because he has been caught up in the era. Mickey Mantle Drank himself to a stuper and took pills everyday along with the greats of that era. Ty cobb was a racist, and Babe Ruth was the poster child of “unhealthy living” Roger is a product of his time in the game. He, like Schill is an icon and is bigger than the game. If nothing else during the time between 1985-1997 Roger won 192 games. Struck out 20 twice. Cy young four times . one MVP that aint that bad.
    PR

  36. December 13, 2007 3:56 pm

    I am curious, Curt, as to what you think about Roger Clemens and his “work ethic” now…

  37. brewcrew77 permalink
    December 13, 2007 4:05 pm

    Well it looks like someone you respect is on that list. Pretty damning evidence against the accused. Too bad. I’m shocked you didn’t know anything about your friends or former teammates’ drug use. Sounds like the D-Backs were heavy into the steroid movement. I think you may have had more than an inkling who would be named in the report.

  38. jonathanmccauley permalink
    December 13, 2007 4:07 pm

    I totally agree with you on points made on your blog. What interests me more is NOT the names of those players on the list, but the impact that the report should have.

    The report should open the eyes of many who do not follow baseball close or to those who do not know the inside of a clubhouse. What intrigues me the most is how those not in the baseball world will be effected by it. While i am a 22 year Law Student, here at OU, i have already started to see the effects because of my peers around me. Some of them have told me personally that they will not watch the game again. I remember a close friend saying:

    “Once a dirty game, always a dirty game.”

    However, i think this game is far more purer than other sports. I would love to think that no other sport is as tainted as the MLB is, but for that i would be ignorant.

    I expect a avid report by the MLBPA, to deny and try to defame this report, but if you read the report (outside of the “hearsay”), there is proof in this pudding.

    Sorry for the rant for this response, but i think enough is enough. Admit the wrong doings, suffer the consequences and move on. With you I agree that the US is a forgiving country. (Unless you are Bill Clinton)

    – JCM

  39. toshiba23 permalink
    December 13, 2007 4:08 pm

    to think that tek and those other players on the 1st where on it was crazy. who would put out a list like that and have no proof of it. if they where on it they would of come forward or not be the people they are now, like tek. he doesn’t want to lose fans or his family. and if he is on it/was he might now come forward to clear his mind. put us to rest for the hell of it. come clean. shut up people that question you please. keep your fans

  40. digris permalink
    December 13, 2007 4:09 pm

    No mention of Varitek in all 409 pages. 8 pages on Clemens. He gets crucified. Gagne needs lasiks, not HGH.

  41. caldo2025 permalink
    December 13, 2007 4:12 pm

    Curt, not trying to kiss up but you should be commended. Clemens faced a similar situation as you..both of you hit a point where you lost velocity and gained some lb’s. Clemens chose to take the needle, you decided to reinvent yourself. The report is graphic on how Clemens was shot up on several occasions with Winstrol…it’s pathetic how much this country adored the Texas Con-man for the last 10 years. I’d hate to be one of those Cy Young Runner Ups those years.

  42. ppiddy permalink
    December 13, 2007 4:14 pm

    Red Sox fans are so filled with anger it’s disgusting — so much that they live in denial. THE REPORT WAS DONE BY THE DIRECTOR OF THE RED SOX! Wake up!!! It is biased. Curt should recognize this. He probably won’t because he sucks up the Nation. For instance, he buys right into the anger towards the Yankees (which is completely unfounded and BS, BTW), He even named his kid after a great Yankee for his admiration of the team’s history but he still buys into the REDSOX fan base’s PSYCHOTIC anger towards the Yankees/
    Most of this report was based in NY. WHY? They could have followed the lead of Manny Alexander and the Boston clubhouse but NOOOOOOOOO. That would be against his personal interests. Then he had the NERVE to compare his ties to the Red Sox with his being a Catholic and working on peace in Ireland. Apples to Oranges. He was not naming names of anti-Catholics.
    WAKE UP RED SOX FANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can’t take the BS anymore.

  43. dewyevensfan permalink
    December 13, 2007 4:22 pm

    I guess it’s safe to say Gag-me was not taking steriods when he was pitching for us!!!!!

  44. soxkensr permalink
    December 13, 2007 4:27 pm

    Curt,

    As a huge fan of yours, I read your blog and enjoy the way you speak your mind. I read most of the comments as well, and find it ludicrous that people would make posts telling you that you are wrong. I certainly do not agree with everything you write, yet enjoy getting the perspective of another person to possibly learn something from.

    I must also add my thanks for all you do for us with ALS. You and your wife are some of the most generous people in the sports world, and without your help, we would be no closer to finding a cause or cure then when the Iron Man gave his name to the disease.

    I have just finished watching the press conference releasing the Mitchell report, and the interviews afterwards. Barry Bloom (MLB.com reporter) states that Congress can stop the steroid use by high schooler’s by making them harder to get, and even offered the suggestion to revoke Federal Funding for schools that do not have an illegal substance testing program, and that the Major League players have no influence in what high school kids do. I have a few questions based on this statement. First, as a long-time little league baseball coach, if kids cannot play in their high school program because of the steroid problem, will they not migrate to the local little league programs that are available in their local community? How does this reduce the steroid problem in high school kids? Can you honestly say that you believe that professional athletes are not role models for children, especially the great ones, whether they want to be or not? In your opinion, should testing positive automatically eliminate a player from the HoF?

    Thanks for everything you do,
    Ken P

  45. metsfanonly permalink
    December 13, 2007 4:29 pm

    Its a sad day for all baseball fans. I justheard Steve Phillips say on ESPN that he is sure his own players were involved in the use & abuse.

  46. fartfignewton permalink
    December 13, 2007 4:30 pm

    Stop being an idiot bobbyo7. There’s a difference between “were doing” and “have done in the past.” The change in the implication between those two statements are huge.

  47. thedoctorx permalink
    December 13, 2007 4:33 pm

    Well, this is going to explode with commentary as will the news unfolds.

    I am saddened that before this was released, some players–like Jason Veritek–were “named” on blogs. As others have noted, some of these–like Tek–are not listed.

    I agree with Schill’s statement that excuses have become tiresome–“I am not hear to discuss the past!”

    The real question is “what,” if anything, will be done? For some players, the only thing to be done is their reputation–Clemens, for example. Not that I expect Shill to read this, and I am sure what will soon be a few hundred comments, but I would like to know his opinion on what being named with sufficient evidence–not just hearsay–to those players’ reputations, including records and the Hall of Fame.

    –J.D.

  48. yanksrdaclassofbball permalink
    December 13, 2007 4:43 pm

    Hey Syphax,

    Don’t even think about being smug. Let’s see…. the author of the damned report is on the Board of Directors for the S**t Sox, and there are no Sox implicated. Give me a f***** break. Maybe in 2003 Pedro shoulda used steroids then so that he coulda slammed the door on game seven, or maybe Graady Little shoulda took steroids so that he would have thought better of leaving Pedro in the game….Oh and I’m sure all the steroids that Aaron F****** Boone was doing helped him hit the home run right?? Boones about a buck fifty soaking wet. Maybe Wakefield shoulda took steroids so his ball woulda knuckled… Typical dumb a** words from another dumb a** Red Sox fan. All mouth and no brain. Karma aint the bitch here, but I know who it is (and it aint me!!) Figure it out yet????

  49. maineac permalink
    December 13, 2007 4:51 pm

    Any member of the players union has some responsibility for this issue being as damaging to the game as it has been.

  50. December 13, 2007 5:14 pm

    I think that what was released to the public was a neutered version of the real report…….I just find it very shocking that none of MLBs greatest players (and assets) are on the list. Everyone listed is a “B” player, a guy who was already caught through the media, or a retired or soon-to-be retired player.

  51. December 13, 2007 5:30 pm

    …. and Wahjah denies. Shock! Surprise!

  52. TheNorEaster permalink
    December 13, 2007 5:44 pm

    Curt:

    Your headline hit the nail on the head. It is a sad day.

    Why in the world were the players so uncooperative?! Mitchell mailed requests to every player in the league and no one responded. And why did the Player’s Association match Mitchell’s mailings with letters discouraging players to cooperate?

    I suppose…On the bright side, as someone pointed out yesterday: “Let’s get this thing over with. I’d rather it happened now than during the first few weeks of spring training.”

    There are three and a half months left until Opening Day. It can’t get here soon enough.

  53. December 13, 2007 5:54 pm

    One of my favorite “Army” sayings when I was on active duty was: Bad news does not get better with time.

    Although this is a terrible day for MLB, players, management, ownership and fans, the only way to get past it is to get it out there and then fight the use of performance enhancing drugs. MLB, like any other organization in our country, is reflective of our society as a whole. Any problems you see in our society you should expect to see in MLB and any other institution. That is why you have cheaters in sports, presidents who cheat on their wives and lie about it, congressmen who do all sorts of weird things, and people of every walk who do self-destructive things.

    I am VERY happy to see no players who are currently playing for the Red Sox were named in the report because that will make defending the championship a bit easier (fewer distractions), but the key is “named”. I have no doubt there are many many more who were not named.

    Now that its out I can only think what Vince Lombardi might have said: “When the going gets tough, the tough get going.” Hopefully, everyone will get tough and hit this thing head on. The fans will certainly have “chant” material. Go Red Sox!!

  54. soxwin28 permalink
    December 13, 2007 5:59 pm

    I just finished reading the Mitchell report. Did you ever expect gagne or Donnelly to be on it?
    Thanks, Alec

  55. chetsteadman permalink
    December 13, 2007 6:04 pm

    “The most explosive 24 hours in the games history.”? Hardly. The Mitchell Report essentially sums up Major League Baseball’s mediocre attempt at cleaning up the game. In fact, this report, to fans, has to be the biggest slap in the face to date of this entire debacle, slightly ahead of the testimony on Capitol Hill.

    The fact is MLB, its employees, including players, are above the law. In any other industry, employees and associates are held accountable for their actions, not rewarded like baseball players. Fans, the same people who fork over an entire paycheck to attend a baseball game (likely to support someone for being at a normal weight for his position – where in the real world employees may lose benefits, even their jobs for being overweight) are hopeless in this situation. Will baseball ever clean up? No. Not a chance. The presence of steroids, HGH, amphetamines and other performance enhancing drugs, will become worse, much worse before it gets better, if ever.

    And why is this? Quite simply put: greed. Owners, executives, right on down to the players, all of whom are greedy, self-righteous individuals, have no sense of morality whatsoever. And until a player steps forward and admits this problem, and becomes somewhat of a whistleblower within the industry, we will see no change in this fact. Hard to believe that a pompous ass like Jose Canseco, now seems like one of the most reliable baseball players and sources of information out there.

  56. metsfanonly permalink
    December 13, 2007 6:20 pm

    Just watched Don Fehr dodge questions from the media. Curt, I have to know what your thoughts are about the MORAL obligation the MLBPA has to not only its fans but to the sport itself. Baseball was/is the “National Pastime” with the records being “sacred.” So now what?

  57. daisy722 permalink
    December 13, 2007 6:38 pm

    Baseball used to be about sportmanship and work ethic-guess it is about the steroids. It is too bad that very talented individuals, who most likely didn’t need to use steroids have their names appear in the report with alleged use. I hope MLB and the players union can figure out a plan to help eliminate cheating through steroid use and help restore the faith in America’s greatest pasttime.

  58. December 13, 2007 6:41 pm

    Remember that the exclusion of a player’s name does not mean exclusion of using Performance Enhancing Drugs. It just means they weren’t mentioned or just didn’t get caught. My cynicism and skepticism is quite high. Imo, the Mitchell Report didn’t do nearly enough. While MLB, the owners and players continue to refuse to really deal with this issue – it is all a joke.

    I am sorry. These guys did not make a mistake in judgment. They knew exactly what they were doing. They were causing societal harm and breaking federal laws.

    Give me a break! These are not adolescent young people. Excuses, excuses, excuses. It’s bad enough when it comes from the players – but coming from fans is inexcusable. There is no excuse, folks! None. Sorry, but we deserve better. I don’t care which player took them… No excuses.

  59. ted5 permalink
    December 13, 2007 6:45 pm

    Roger and out! Is anyone truly surprised Roger’s name is on the list I have been saying for years–He had to be on something! I’ve been 30 years old, 40 years old, and 50 years old and you ,physically, do not improve with age. No way! Curt, you are right to raise questions about the media. They knew about Clemens but didn’t want to know. They don’t report–they pontificate! And what about all those awards? They are as tarnished as his name. Dan Duquette gets the last laugh!
    Ted

  60. December 13, 2007 7:03 pm

    Question:

    If Mark McGwire was not on the list, should he be voted into the HOF next time around?

    Should Sammy Sosa make the HOF?

  61. December 13, 2007 7:08 pm

    I agree with pretty much everything in the post.

    Well said, Curt.

  62. jeetslady permalink
    December 13, 2007 7:12 pm

    As a Yankee Fan who enjoys your blog, I would like to use this as a place to let Pettitte and Clemens know that you need to just stand up and say Yes I did this for a period of time between — and — . Mr. Schilling is right when he says this is a forgiving country. Admit it, and lets move on. I for one will have lost zero respect for either man who for whatever reason they felt they needed these injections to help them heal quickly, or perform better. I am not saying that I agree with their decision, but they worked in an environment that this drug was accesible and all around them. They are human. They made a mistake. If Barry had admitted to this years ago, he wouldn’t be where he is in court right now. He let it go on too long and that is where I lost respect for him. I do not believe though that any of his records should have an * I also don’t believe that Pettitte and Clemens should not be labeled as poster boys of the steroid era which is all over ESPN and driving me nuts. What a rush to judgement. Didn’t they learn anything when They reported on the murder of NFL player Sean Taylor? No respect

  63. December 13, 2007 7:50 pm

    Honestly, unless players start speaking the truth, stop hiding behind the union, or towing the company line, baseball will never move on and we’ll never find the answers we so-called want.

    The sick thing is though the so-called rats have been proven right.

    In cases like these, sadly, burden of proof does not matter so much; alas, it’s the perception is reality unless the players prove themselves innocent rather than guilty.

    – Anthony, The Oriole Post

  64. flogbishop permalink
    December 13, 2007 8:10 pm

    I love the fact that the Yankees won 4 world series during the short “steroid era”. Think about it.

  65. bastognenuts permalink
    December 13, 2007 8:44 pm

    Maybe we owe Dan Duquette an apology. He said Clemens was at the “twilight” in his career and let him go to the Blue Jays. Clemens had a few mediocre years before leaving. Maybe Duquette was right in assessing Clemens at the time. He went to the Blue Jays, got hooked up on juice and HGH, and wins a bunch of CY awards.

    Duquette then went out and got Pedro. Pedro wins us a WS title….a legit title unlike the 98, 99 Yankees.

    First time poster. Great site, Curt!

    NUTS!!! -General McAuliffe 1944

  66. cano24 permalink
    December 13, 2007 8:57 pm

    I am sorry but this whole report is very stupid. I am all for getting rid of steroids but why do they have somebody who has a lot of money invested in the Red Sox leading the investigation? The two most notable players mentioned are Yankees, the two main sources of information are from New York and the first two names ESPN ran with were Yankees. I can not be the only person Yankee fan or not who doesn’t see something wrong here. I just don’t buy the fact that after 15 yrs or so that the biggest Red Sox names they could come up with are Donnelly and Gange lol This was a Yankee witch hunt from the start and anybody who doesn’t agree is pure blind. George Mitchell has financial and personal ties to the Red Sox and this was just the perfect way to drag the Yankee organization through the dirt. I would bet a lot of money if somebody from the Yankees front office was leading this investigation there would be a lot more notable Red Sox busted than Donelly and Gange. The Yankees would first start with Ortiz. How do you go from a 260 hitter who hits line drives to a 300+ hitter who hits 450ft home runs in 2 yrs? The names of the Yankees and other players are dirty and rightfully so but Mitchell in my opinion is just as dirty for the way this report was handled

  67. 1954redsoxfan permalink
    December 13, 2007 9:00 pm

    There is an old saying if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, sounds like a duck then it must be a duck.

    It’s a sad day for baseball. I find it so hard to accept “just say it was a mistake” anymore. Are we forgiving? Yes. Too forgiving? Most certainly in my opinion.

    The way I see it is that all of you involved in MLB. All of you from the players who use, the management who condone, the trainers who hush hush it, the players who are clean but are aware, the owners of the teams to the Mr. Selig. You are all responsible and guilty. I have written several posts here over the past few weeks. If you read them you will see that I love baseball with a passion. Like many fans I am now at the crossroad of where will I stand with this issue. It is difficult. Millions of young boys and girls look up to an adore you the players. Some of them follow you like you are gods and will copy what you do because you are so good at whichever position you may play and excel at. Just think what you may have now done to some of these youth. The future of baseball.

    While there are no numbers or statistics available I am sure that some of these kids will end up trying the same things you men are using.

    Unfortunately some may even use more dangerous and deadly things like cocaine, heroin etc. (Not that HGH and the other things aren’t deadly) And why? Maybe because they look up to you so much they can’t understand the truth to it all. What will you do if one of your own babies plies that route? Who will you blame then? The fans? Sports is one of the last things we need to see destroyed for our kids. You guys and women get paid millions of dollars. You break the laws. You hide your head in shame. You deny it’s existence.
    As a parent I am distraught that even the nonusers keep the cheaters and liars safely hidden, brush it off and look the other way. You want no part of the truth unless it fits your plan. Baseball is a game. You call it a business and it is but the bottom line it is still a game. It has to be played. Perhaps I have had my rose colored glasses on too long. Perhaps I have accepted “I’m sorry I made a mistake” one time too many Curt. Perhaps I am to blame just like everyone who in involved in baseball. Maybe I’m too old.

    What I see now is that baseball has fallen to the depths of disgrace just like football (the great Michael Vick (beast master)) or basketball (violence both on and off the court) and most all of the other big name sports. The difference this time is drugs. But really is there much difference between the drugs, violence and abuse?
    If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, sounds like a duck then it must be a duck.
    “This is a pretty damn forgiving country. We are all about giving people second chances. The quicker anyone guilty is accountable the quicker we can all move on and hopefully make this thing go away, and fix what needs to be fixed.

    But I also think there are going to be players named purely on speculation and opinion and that to me will be the true sadness in all of this. I don’t think it’s a reach to say that regardless of the context in which your name might be mentioned in this report, people will lump every name into one big ball of guilty by association, and that won’t be right.”

    Curt in using your own words we are all guilty merely because of “association”. None of us should be let off that easy. I sincerely hope that whoever is “guilty by association” stand together and put an end or at least the beginning of the end to the blindness in what is still the greatest “game” of them all.
    David

  68. donmehan permalink
    December 13, 2007 9:12 pm

    Curt,

    Are you surprised at all with Clemens outrage and total denial? Now he and his attorney are “spinning” the story that his and Andy Pettite’s trainer was forced to make up this “story” because he was threatened with criminal prosecution.

    It was so refreshing to hear Marion Jones “sincerely” apologize for her mistake, not that she deserves kudos for doing so, but at least she stepped up and did the right thing in admitting her mistake.

    Why can’t any baseball player, other than Canseco, do the same? Do they all feel they’re bullet proof and can get away with anything?

    Sad day indeed!

    We sure appreciate your honesty and speaking from the heart on many issues. Thanks Curt.

  69. highangleman permalink
    December 13, 2007 9:22 pm

    With the “steroid era” now upon us I think their should be either an asterisk or bold lettering on all players that have played in this era. Don’t just single out the ones that have used some kind of enhancement. It is only fair to the players that have not used anything when baseball was an honest game (well with out performance enhancement drugs). I believe that the people who broke records should have the asterisk next to them for this reason. MLB and the Hall Of Fame should differentiate the two eras. Everybody looks for an edge at any time in history but what the steroid era is just ridiculous.

  70. mikea82 permalink
    December 13, 2007 9:36 pm

    This whole situation is just depressing. There were very few things in life as simple and true as baseball and the inocence is now gone. It really is depressing to know that the faces of baseball in the 90’s are now tarnished. It really is a shame.

  71. December 13, 2007 9:56 pm

    “sure I tried steroids, but I didn’t inhale”

    –Worked for a former president…

  72. rudremn permalink
    December 13, 2007 10:25 pm

    Honestly………the names on the list does not surprise me what so ever. However, cant make me believe that out of a possible 5100 players since 1984 only 86 names made it on the list i think that list should be more like 450 names. As I read down through the blogs from tonight/today I get a sense from everyone including you Curt that all everyone wants is to accept responsibility so we can move on. Isn’t that what we expect from life in general. I agree with dhughes that now some investigation needs to be looked into about what to do with the Spankmees WS run in the late 90’s. If MLB is willing to ***** next to Barry’s homerun record then there should be some added to chokemees players names and organization achievements. I am absolutely befuddled that the 2 yankees fans chimed in on the blog tonight and are still trying to run the SOX and theirs fans into the mud and of course like a true Yankees fan instead of takin any heat for their cheating team and turn it into ” it being bias” Why dont you 2 wake up and realize that the Red Sox organization and its players have ALWAYS played the game with dignity and respect for the game “you know the way it should be” instead of looking for the biggest hero from the season before, buying him, introducing him to the wonderful world of PHD’s and calling themselves champions like your beloved Yankees……………………

  73. baaacknearthebullpen permalink
    December 13, 2007 10:30 pm

    The problem starts with the owners, naming Bud Selig as commissioner. That office is supposed to protect the owners from themselves, as an impartial executive the commissioner could always justify his actions as “in the best interest of the game.” They are now reaping what they have sown, the Legends of the game have been sullied, the records are a joke,
    and the players union can claim rightfully the accusations have met no burden of proof. For Selig to claim he wasn’t aware of steroids is to stretch the limits of common sense. It’s time for responsibility and consequences, starting with Bud’s resignation. Until that happens the farce continues.

  74. crowlebb permalink
    December 13, 2007 10:34 pm

    I absolutely agree that this is a forgiving country for people who are honest about the conscious mistakes they have made in the past. When you think about “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone” it does not mean “If you have never used steroids feel free to denigrate everyone who has”. What they did was wrong, but let’s give them a chance to see how they respond. We all make mistakes (large and small) and it would be a dark world without the grace of forgiveness. I’m not suggesting that we give everyone a free pass, obviously. But let’s all just slow down and see how this all plays out.

  75. rudremn permalink
    December 13, 2007 10:37 pm

    And one other note thank you Cano24 for saying what you did about the dirty players and maybe you are right that some past Red Sox players names should be on the list but Oritz got better as a hitter because he got out of Minnesota and got with a real hitting coach I mean really look at PAPI does he look juiced hes 6’4″ 230 lbs of out of shape is what he is .

  76. danshaughnessy1918 permalink
    December 13, 2007 10:50 pm

    I’m just disappointed your name wasn’t on there. Now I have to start over for tomorrow’s column, which means I’m going to miss the “Ripped Pants” episode on SpongeBob. Schilling, you screwed me again.

  77. usf7repct permalink
    December 13, 2007 10:51 pm

    i understand yankee fans concern for an un-biased Mitchell investigation. But what people fail to realize they only people we can blame for this are the players. Since they refused to cooperate with the investigation the mitchell investigators were forced to take testimony from others tied to the organization. We have to blame certain players for failed judgements. If someone says take these you’ll play better, do you take them? These players are adults and need to realize right from wrong. They have failed as role models and certainly as men. So yankee fans don’t blame the investigation on poor judgement from a few players. Since 95′ nearly 3,500 players have played professional baseball. And some of those chose to succeed the wrong way. It is a shame who lost an oppurtunity to fulfill a lifes dream to play professional baseball ligitly because cheaters like clemens or pettite or tejada or any other player named.
    If a yankee employee did the report what else could they have found? They asked hundreds of people about the situation if players were named they would have been put in the report. Wake up and realize the 99 and 00 world series is tainted!

  78. baseballnh permalink
    December 13, 2007 11:14 pm

    Curt, You say that you have never witnessed anyone actually using steroids or HGH, but what about amphetamines? Using them would be considered cheating too Curt, right?

  79. wookielookin permalink
    December 13, 2007 11:16 pm

    Boy oh boy there are a few real idiots showing up tonight. This is all a RED SOX conspiracy against the Yankees simply because George Mitchell is a director (uncompensated) with the RS. Let us ignore that the man is a former Attorney General, Judge, Senate Majority Leader and that he somehow figured out how to get the IRA and the Brits talking and secured peace in N. Ireland. Oh well.

    Anyway, as a life long Sox fan who still enjoyed watching Rocket pitch as a Jay and a Yankee (albeit not against the sox,) I have to say that I am incredibly disappointed.

    Remember those mediocre seasons in the mid ’90s as a Sox that had then GM Dan Duquette stating that Roger was done or on the decline? Remember how we vilified Duquette for allowing Roger to go, myself included? Looks like Duquette has a hell of a smile on his face tonight!

    If you look at the period of Rockets steroid and HGH usage in the Mitchell report, it lines up pretty much with his miraculous consistency as a 20 game and Cy Young award winner with the Jays and the later the Yankees!

    As for WHY all the Yankees in the report, open your eyes, its no conspiracy. I forget the name of the steroid / HGH provider that snitched on the Yankee and Mets players, however, this fellow lives in Long Island, used his mother who lives in the Bronx as a staging point, and had free access to both club houses. It stands to reason that their would be a preponderance of NY players named. This is not to say its any rosier in Boston, Cleveland or anywhere else.

    I firmly believe that if they named 80 or so in this report that they happened to catch, that there are many many other larger fish out there that have not been caught to date.

    Do you seriously think that of the 80 named, with only 5 – 10 premiere players and the rest virtual nobodies; that this is the entire pool of tainted players within the scope of the past 10 years? You’re awfully naive if you do.

    The report reads like all the proof needed to ever prove the dumb jock theory of evolution. Can you imagine writing checks for this stuff? It’s like the stupid bank robber that makes a withdrawal from his own savings account just before holding up the bank!

    Keep up the good work Curt!

    Tom

  80. loveyanks permalink
    December 13, 2007 11:19 pm

    hey flogbishop,

    the yankees won those ws with great pitching,and a great team effort, you would think you would stop whining, about previous yankee ws, and be thankful that you have two under your belt now. why is it. that no matter what happens in the news, you have so many bad things to say about us?

    get real dude,old news wouldn’t you think?you have a great team now.and it looks like for many years to come.so stop blaming,all you’re losing years on the yankees. if the redsox would have done business then, like there doing now, they maybe they would have more then”2″ ws in 86yrs……..best wishes

  81. emmmer permalink
    December 13, 2007 11:36 pm

    Just out of curiosity…how did that guy get to be in charge of the report? It aggravates me that non-Sox fans feel that because this guy is attached to the Red Sox, that there won’t be any important Sox players named.
    The first thing I did was open the PDF file and start doing searches on names. I gave up and just searched for the Red Sox. I bet Duquette is laughing his butt off.
    I know it’s not a good thing that so many people are involved in this but I thought it was going to be much worse. And for all those people that are screaming, “Where are the positive tests?” didn’t you read the report? The fantastic players’ association would fight the tests until the suspected violator’s system had been cleansed. How surprising it that?
    Keep fighting the good fight, Curt. Can’t wait to see you on the mound again.

  82. beenthereb4 permalink
    December 13, 2007 11:42 pm

    All,

    Red Sox this!!…..Yankees that!!…….

    First off, remember these organizations represent HUNDREDS of talented people from Single A right up to the Majors. Probably a very high percentage of these players in both teams are clean and are very proud to be in their respective organizations. We always lose sight of that.
    Yes, it’s the greatest and historic rivalry in all of sports but let’s be adults here…..
    (Heck, how about the 70% on the list that are on other teams — the non Sox/Yanks.)

    So, let’s “talk” about the INDIVIDUALS and the mess they got themselves into.

    I agree as others had noted here; this is just the BEGINNING.
    Think about it. These “drug pushers” named names to get lighter sentences from the Feds. What if players on the list implicate more players?? Remember, BALCO and 2 other sources led to this investigation. Are there other suppliers we don’t know about?….

    Steel-town.

  83. rockiemtn42 permalink
    December 14, 2007 12:43 am

    you know i have to agree with a previous comment, this game is so important to our country and other countries around the world that no one player is above the game or should ever be above the game. It disturbs that some players feel they have to use steroids in order to compete in the game. Baseball is one of the only sports where a person of any size can compete. What are the honest players supposed to think, they are the ones that have been competing with cheaters. What other sports have players using steroids, maybe it is time to include basketball, football, hockey, and everything else. Remember it not whether you win or lose but how you play the game that is important. One more thing the Sox are going to win again in 2008.

  84. ikondave permalink
    December 14, 2007 12:44 am

    Anyone who believes that a man of George Mitchell’s stature and level of accomplishment would use this report to enrich himself or his firm is a fool. He was one of the most widely respected voices in the Senate for many years. He conducted himself with the highest ethical standards and the earned the admiration of both Democrats and Republicans. History may judge his efforts to bring piece to Northern Ireland as being amongst the most important of the 20th century. And you think he’s going to risk his reputation by spinning a report on BASEBALL? Get a grip.

    What I don’t like about this report is the fact that many players are named with no more evidence than word of individuals who were peddling the controlled substances and are looking to cut deals. I think that the release of this report will so compromise the players constitutional rights, that any further prosecution will be impossible and that MLB might find itself prohibited from exacting any in-house punishments.

    While we sit and fret over what a few grown men have done, how many people will die in Darfur? What is happening right now to our brave men and women in uniform in Iraq and Afghanistan? How many more children will develop asthma (America’s fastest growing pediatric disease) because of all of the filth in the air? How will our government deal with the massive infrastructure failures that we are already beginning to witness? In the grand scheme of things, what importance does steroid use in baseball really have?

    Baseball players, football players, race car drivers and many others have always looked for that extra “edge”. Anyone who knows baseball can quickly name a few famous, highly regarded pitchers whose careers were built on spitballs. Think corked bats. When an outfielder traps a ball, yet its called an out, do you expect him to stop the game, go to the umpire and tell him that the call was wrong? When I hear people whining about the kids in America who are using steroids because some baseball players do, I have to shake my head. Anyone of any age who is stupid enough to use steroids has no one but themselves to blame when they suffer the consequences. What concerns me more is that we are encouraging youngsters to deny responsibility for their conduct by pointing the finger of blame at someone else. That mentality creates moral cowards.

    Perspective people.

  85. milsurf26 permalink
    December 14, 2007 12:56 am

    What a SAD day for Baseball. Hey we all knew it, but just kind of let it float by. C’mon Curt! You had to know about Dykstra? And what about his “former midget buddy”….Micky Morandini???? Those were the days when I feel this stage of baseball took off! Wow, why couldn’t they all be like Tony Gwynn?

    I just wish we (fans, players, media, etc) could all just go back to….THE GAME. But now you can’t. It’s all about the money! Just look at the NFL. What a league, huh? Yea they have it all, but how commercial is that league?? I used to love it, but now….turning off the lights at halftime during the half time show??? HOW AND WHY DID THAT NOT BE RIDICULED THE WAY IT SHOULD’VE. THEY WERE SITTING THERE WITH CANDLES ON??? Oh Costas get a life! OK I’m all over the place now.

    But Baseball should and I think could just go back to basics. We have the best game. If someone cheats…THEY SHOULD BE G O N E . (period)

    Curt…you have the platform to get us out of this sick commercialized sports world. For instance, why do people who don’t watch a single game all year…suddenly watch the Super Bowl? (oops…I didn’t Pay To Say it so….THE BIG GAME) It also sucks that kids can’t stay up to see a playoff game???? Start time??? $$$$

    Sports are really losing there hold over hard working fans!

  86. dubsku05 permalink
    December 14, 2007 1:11 am

    I have a few things. How does a guy that worked to get peace in Ireland become so “Dirty”. I was wondering how that is possible. It isn’t his or the Red Sox fault that NO Current Red Sox is on the list. It isn’t like the 400 lb. machine Mo Vaughn wasn’t on list. He was a Red Sox wasn’t he? I am sure. It sadens me that we can not just look at the list and say… WOW…it really is that bad?! It shouldn’t be about what players are on what team, because in a day of free agency, almost eveyone has been on a different teams and so on. It is so typical that Yankee fans would get on here and cry about how it is unfair. Lets see if there is a trail of evidence then they should follow it. Everyone that is a fan of baseball has some sort of attachment to someone on this list in one way or another. People that get on here and scream and yell about how they were wronged, NEED TO WAKE UP!!!! This is rediculus and confirms every reason why I can not stand to be in the presence of a self righteous Yankee fan. GO SOX!!!! Another day goes by to showing why we are the class of the league. And Yankee fans have a bad case of sour grapes!!!

  87. mlb2007playoffs permalink
    December 14, 2007 1:11 am

    Curt,

    I think the Mitchell Report has generated the most fervent activity in bloggers in a long, long time. People who don’t ordinarily talk or think about baseball have something to say now because of this Mitchell Report. It’s pretty astounding. In less than eight hours, there were already hundreds of posts related to the Mitchell Report on WordPress *alone*. I have compiled fifty posts from around the blogosphere here – http://mlb2007playoffs.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/the-mitchell-report-thoughts-from-the-blogosphere/-

    The question that remains is whether this kind of attention to baseball from fans (and the general public) is better than no attention at all. I am not sure. What do you think?

  88. nictyshaw permalink
    December 14, 2007 1:45 am

    What about the players named that won awards year after year. How do you justify that?

    The race between McGuire and Sosa was so exciting if I knew they were both juiced up I would of never watched.

    Baseball is suppose to be a god given talent that not everyone could do. Wheres the pride in these players that grew up watching all the old greats that accomplished things on pure love of the game not on any drug.

    I dont know, but, my boys are big fans of alot of different players throughout the MLB and I think its just a shame that I have to tell a 9 yr old and a 7 yr old about steroids and why everytime they see Barry Bonds on SportsCenter theres this little star next to his name.

    P.S. If Clemens name is truly on the report he better not ever go to the Hall Of Fame as a Red Sox Theres enough of Yankees names on Mitchells report I heard so let him where that uniform rather than disgrace ours.

  89. Philadelphia Sports permalink
    December 14, 2007 2:48 am

    In hindsight this should’ve been obvious…but I still need to say it.

    NOT LENNY DYKSTRA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    😦

  90. jbbrennx permalink
    December 14, 2007 2:50 am

    Clemens has just got to come clean with the fans on this. He has no choice.

  91. Philadelphia Sports permalink
    December 14, 2007 2:50 am

    donmehan:

    Marion Jones lied for years until she was basically forced to admit she did them.

  92. bobbyo7 permalink
    December 14, 2007 4:46 am

    hey Fartfignewton,

    get you head out of pretty boy Theo’s a** long enough to see how being a GM and bringing in players that “have done” or are doing steriods is just as bad. It shows that he’s just as bad as the rest of the steriod USERS. He’s a fraud.

  93. 99dawg99 permalink
    December 14, 2007 5:00 am

    i dont think baseball shoulod take a hit nor should it be percieved as a tainted sport. as an american, i still believe in due process and facts beyond a reasonable doubt.( and no, my trainer told me his brother knows a guy that sold it to mlb players, is not factual….. however as a sox fan i feel that any yankees named in the report should recieve a lifetime ban. reguardless, if you let this report tarnish your view of the game then you arent a true fan of the game. so keep all your hateful comments to yourself and let the true fans enjoy the game that has served america for over 100 yrs.

  94. hagenk permalink
    December 14, 2007 5:46 am

    When we were little kids, I remember being taught not to cheat and specifically the phrase “cheaters never prosper”. It took me nearly a half century to decide that was an incorrect statement. Cheaters do prosper, and if you get caught in sports you may lose people’s respect, but you often prosper. And most cheaters don’t care if they get respect anyway. It’d be nice, but money is far more important to them than respect. In college when you cheat on a test (and get caught), you get kicked out. If you cheat on taxes, and get caught, you go to jail. In baseball, if you cheat, you might get suspended for two weeks, but you are more likely to simply face authority that says “Hey stop cheating…ok…continue”. And who looks up to students or taxpayers anyway. So, hey kids…If pro athletes cheat, then well…let’s just say “green light”…go ahead. Though I must say, baseball ain’t alone. I remember in college football in the late 1970’s and early 80’s, steroids were hugely popular and widely taken. I never took them, though watched skinny guys in the spring, take them (and GH Hormone), and end up with NFL careers and money a year later. Did football get cleaner over the years?

    So, why single out baseball? Because baseball was a pure sport of true athletes, a game of character, our pastime, America’s game. I think baseball was a sport some of us hoped would shine the light of true character, integrity, and teach us good things about life…and warm our souls. But now professional sports, especially baseball, are nothing more than a different version of professional (fake) wrestling. But baseball is worse than the WWF now, because you have cheaters and liars. The WWF is mostly just cheaters. The World Wrestling Federation (WWF) and baseball are not fun to watch when you know the truth…that it’s not real. Blur your eyes a bit when you watch it, like I do with the WWF, and pretend like it’s real. It makes it more fun.

  95. delanav permalink
    December 14, 2007 7:09 am

    Curt,

    “Say it ain’t so . . .” Wishful thinking, yes . . . I think many of us were hopeful that some of the names to be listed would not be those that we or our kids look up to. It’s a lesson for them too that those very public sports figures are people who sometimes do the wrong thing in order to win, and it doesn’t make it right. There were names that I will admit to anticipating on the list and some that I didn’t want to see that were there. I appreciate your perspective and thank you for speaking up responsibly. You are right in that America is very forgiving. I pray that this will be a wake-up call for all sports and that those that play the game with the “Little League Spirit” will continue to succeed.

  96. December 14, 2007 8:00 am

    The thing that bothered me the most was the e-mails from the Red Sox F.O. inquiring whether some one was a JUICE GUY. It just shows that it is not just the Ball players fault, but all levels of MLB turning a blind eye to the problem. I hope my favorite sport is now on the road to recovery !!!!!

  97. rswanzey permalink
    December 14, 2007 8:16 am

    “Red Sox fans are so filled with anger it’s disgusting — so much that they live in denial. THE REPORT WAS DONE BY THE DIRECTOR OF THE RED SOX! Wake up!!! It is biased.” – some idiot above whose username I didn’t take down. Around post #40

    Now why in the hell would someone with a team interest implicate two members of the 2007 Red Sox, one of whom is likely to come back on a minor league deal during his rehab, in addition to drawing attention to the fact that the Sox office was aware of their steroid use prior to and in the process of acquiring each? Obviously, he is biased towards the Red Sox, so he withheld that information. Oh wait…

    You are contradicting yourself. Do you see why?

  98. bosoxfan4life permalink
    December 14, 2007 8:54 am

    Thank you for this blog Mr. Schilling. This blog makes you accessible in a game where so few are.
    About the Mitchell Report….I’m done reading that there was a conflict of interest. George Mitchell was asked by the commissioner of baseball to launch an investigation. The investigation was endorsed by all the managers of every team in baseball. If anyone inside the game took issue with Mr. Mitchell’s role as a member of the Red Sox organization, they had time to say so. The only people who seem to take issue with the report and the investigation are those who are fans of the named men. I don’t blame you. You should be angry. The people you invested time in are cheaters. You have a right to be angry. But as the saying goes….don’t shoot the messenger.

  99. johnb121454 permalink
    December 14, 2007 8:54 am

    I agree wholeheartedly that people need to step up, take responsibility for their actions, and apologize to anyone who was affected by their actions. But even a stand-up guy, sorry or not, needs to suffer the consequences of those actions. When a player finally leavs the game, all he has is his numbers and his eputation. One of the great things about baseball is that in any good discussion of the numbers, we’ve always made allowances for differencs in the eras and have formed our opinions accordingly concerning the relative value of those numbers: “Yeah, well, Player X played before night baseball, didn’t have to compete against relief specialists/black players, played in a bandbox, etc.” This is just one more factor in that mix. If it keeps people out of Cooperstown, so be it. If they get in anyway, so be it. We’ll all come to our own conclusions about any given player’s place in history. Let’s move forward.

  100. philliesoxfan permalink
    December 14, 2007 9:13 am

    I feel very sad about the list of players that is being plastered all over the media. I have become a baseball fan in my middle years and am less interested in stats than in enjoying the stories of how the baseball players have struggled to achieve, and I spend my summers cheering the red sox on, sometimes even at Fenway. This has become an important way to bond with my 14 year old son .

    As a psychologist,I understand the way that stress and pressure to achieve can contribute to making bad decisions. Fans who lack empathy for the players on the list would do better to examine themselves. How do they handle pressure in their lives? Are any of us above reproach.

  101. loubrod permalink
    December 14, 2007 9:15 am

    Here I am getting ready to go to Red Sox Fantasy camp and this hits. Im going for the love of a game that Ive had since youth. I’ve always felt that baseball has gotten out of hand with the players ability versus $$$$. Of course now we come to see how they were able to hit the numbers. Its not about records its about the money. If these players listed and some that are not need steroids and stuff to be able to perform then I feel they were definately ripping off us the fans,the true lovers of the game and most of all people like you who appears to me to be in it for the game. As far as I’m concerned you have earned your spot in the light and I can respect peolpe like you for what you have given to us not the Clemens, Bonds…..they have given us heartache. The so called winners proved to be losers….I hope they are feeling real good about now.

  102. the cuban buddhist permalink
    December 14, 2007 9:30 am

    As Chet Steadman and others have mentioned, Jose Canseco is going to make the rounds with a huge dose of “I told you so”. This reminds me of when Brian Bosworth released his book and was tarred and feathered and vilified in the Oklahoma press. Barry Switzer took down his picture from the Hall of Honor at OU. The book spilled the beans on the reality of the program at OU and little by little all the facts came out. When Canseco released his book he took a lot of heat, a lot of denials came out. Like Bosworth said in the paperback version of his book, a little ketchup goes good with the pages of the book.

  103. pantherfan permalink
    December 14, 2007 9:40 am

    “Look, if you ordered HGH or steroids, in your name, and there is documentation to prove that you did, please do us all a favor and admit you made a mistake and move on.”

    How about players admitting mistakes without having it shoved down their throats first?

  104. lordfondleberries permalink
    December 14, 2007 10:14 am

    Hey Schill,

    After hearing your conversation with D and C this morning, I wanted to ask whether you and/or other clean pitchers will consider drilling any of the named current players that you might face next season. I don’t mean to make this seem like a sophomoric tit for tat, but you were so fired up about what it may have meant for your and others’ career stats if you were all on a level playing field. I can’t put myself in a player’s shoes, but I don’t know if I’d be able to hold back against any of these guys.

  105. rsoohoo permalink
    December 14, 2007 10:40 am

    Everybody is concerned with pointing fingers and defending their reputation. Selig, the players, and the fans at this point.

    Mitchell said it in this report, in his opinion he didn’t think the players should be punished. He made this statement because i think he realized the problem was much more widespread then just his report.

    Your opinion and statements are the most “real” ones i’ve seen from a player.

  106. wcp5008 permalink
    December 14, 2007 10:54 am

    It was indeed a dark day for the sport. With Clemens and Pettite on the list it really makes me appreciate your style and class so much more. You could have turned to some substance to keep your velocity up and pitch the way you used to like those two, but instead you took the harder and natural way, reinventing your style. It was a lot more work but it was safe and healthy and has produced amazing results. I’m glad you are staying with the sox and I’m looking forward to watching you pitch.

  107. calvinballer permalink
    December 14, 2007 11:36 am

    brussell21,

    You wrote something way off context to what Curt was saying. You quoted him:

    “This is a pretty damn forgiving country. We are all about giving people second chances. The quicker anyone guilty is accountable the quicker we can all move on and hopefully make this thing go away, and fix what needs to be fixed.”

    And then you wrote about Bonds, Sosa, etc. These people have not been held accountable. The whole point of Curt’s quote here is to say that if you fess up and hold yourself accountable, the quicker we can move on and fix this problem. The actual problem here is those folks you mention did not hold themselves accountable and have done everything they can not to fess up. Even them we can forgive though. Forgiving and forgetting are two completely different things.

  108. ignoreant1 permalink
    December 14, 2007 11:52 am

    Curt: I know you love the game of baseball. I am asking you to take the McCain approach, to do the unpopular thing, take the lead and advocate that the player’s union sign off on the most aggressive transparent drug testing policy in all of sports. I think we know there are a lot more players who used these performance enhancing drugs and we can spend years tracking them all down. I agree with Senator Mitchell, lets move forward, offer amnesty for all those players named and lets restore the game to its rightful place as America’s past time.

  109. baseballnh permalink
    December 14, 2007 12:41 pm

    Curt,
    How do you feel about amphetamine use in baseball? It is a performance enhacing drug.

  110. shrute permalink
    December 14, 2007 2:11 pm

    Do Yankees fans really believe there is no validity to the Mitchell Report just because Mitchell is a Sox director? Do they believe the stuff about Clemens and Pettite is made up? They were openly rooting for Varitek and Ortiz to be included. As Tom Verducci points out today in cnnsi.com, it was luck that nailed Clemens and Pettite. But that doesn’t make them any less guilty. The Report wasn’t going to get everybody. The Red Sox got slapped around on the Gagne thing because the scouts warned management about him being a juicer and they paid him and gave up Gabbard anyway. So, the Sox got slapped around and they need to explain why they acted this way. As for Clemens, the biggest issue here is his place in MLB history. If you’re Curt Schilling and the Hall of Fame is thisclose and the fastball is slowing down, you have to think about things like level playing fields, etc. When Roger Clemens began juicing, his stats were far short of Schilling’s today.

  111. ignoreant1 permalink
    December 14, 2007 2:37 pm

    If they put Clemens, Bonds and the rest on Hall of Fame Ballots, why not Peter Rose? After all his gambling problem didn’t get him one extra hit.

  112. darrenhfx permalink
    December 14, 2007 2:49 pm

    Curt:

    After thumbing through the report, what really jumps out at me is the amount of influence trainers can have on the players. Player education on the dangers of performance enhancing substances is an important piece of the puzzle, but what about having a regulatory body in place to certify training staff and provide advice on cutting edge training practices? This would at least address the grey area that exists on whether or not players knew what they were doing when they initiated a therapy regime as the standards would be available for reference. It is the a player’s best interests to maintain their body at the optimal performance level, I believe that effort would be well invested in insuring that the right kind of advice is also the most easily obtained.

    Happy Holidays!

  113. ppiddy permalink
    December 14, 2007 3:04 pm

    Rswanzey, I am the “idiot” from post 40.
    You don’t see the conflict of interest in choosing a Director of the Boston Red Sox to lead up an investigation on steroids and base it in NY????!!! Please tell me you’re joking. I’ll tell you what, if you think that’s fair, then next year we can have one of the Steinbrenners do a steroid investigation, too, and base it in Boston — and we can start the trail in Boston with Manny Alexander who was caught with evidence (NOT HEARSAY) of a car full of steroids. And we all know who Manny Alexander hung out with. Starting to see how ridiculous is?

    Next, the two Red Sox players that were implicated were fingered for their time with OTHER teams. In this report the Boston clubhouse comes off as spotless. Do you really think all teams didn’t have some juicers? Curt himself mentions in his blog that he was warned by people in the baseball world that there were juicers in the BoSox clubhouse. But Mr. Mitchell has a personal and economic interest in Red Sox Nation so, of course, he steered clear of the muddy water up there.

    Next: You can’t admit that Red Sox NAtion has an anger issue when it comes to the NY Yankees. I was at a Red Sox game out in OAKLAND and Red Sox fans were chanting Yankees Suck. They chant it at Patriots FOOTBALL games! I have friends that are Yankees fans that were accosted in midwest cities by visiting Red Sox fans bc they were wearing Yankee jerseys. The anger is unhealthy and sickening. Do you think the rest of the country cares about the Yankee/Red Sox rivalry as much as you guys obsess over it????!!!! Even Yankee fans: the only reason they hate you is because RED SOX NATION HATES THEM!!!!!!!Year after year, living in CT and hearing this crap, it’s tiring. You finally won your WSeries trophies.. no, please, Red Sox NAtion: MOVE ON!

  114. hottscott permalink
    December 14, 2007 3:09 pm

    The reason some teams were mentioned more than others was that some were better at covering up. We should probably think more in terms of percentages of players. Figuring out who would have won or lost is probably pointless at this time.

  115. December 14, 2007 3:54 pm

    Frankly, I have no sympathies for the players who broke the rules. They are clearly defined and they knew the personal and professional risks when they made the choice to use illegal substances. Period. I’m so tired of how the rules that “apply to everyone” rarely do.

    Thanks for staying on top of this Curt!

  116. cardinal10 permalink
    December 14, 2007 4:23 pm

    I think that everyone has to take the specifics of who was named with a grain of salt. The sources were two men who had specific ties to the Mets and the Yankees. It would not be surprising that we would find a similar figure in each of baseball’s cities. I think that what should be taken from the list is more of a percentage. 15-18 players from each team can likely be traced, just like there were 15-18 mets and yankees.

    I’m curious to know whether Curt was one of the ‘outspoken’ players that did not speak with Mitchell. (there were 4..only Frank Thomas did)

  117. December 14, 2007 4:42 pm

    The problem with this report is it doesn’t address any thing new nor does it give any information that wasn’t already in the news. With all respect to Mr Mitchell he didn’t show anything in his report except the checks that showed a few people already named had in deed purchased drugs. The report was a total failure in as much as it didn’t even have a list as the media claimed. What it did have was an opinion that Mr Mitchell turned into a soap opera style condemnation of some people that may be shown someday to have abused PED’s and others that didn’t abuse them to be lumped in with them. In actuality these grouped names only show some of the people who abused PED’swith once again some who haven’t but got caught up in the group names with no proof such as Brian Roberts.

    If we look at the actual numbers of players that have been caught by baseball’s new drug program “before they named names or instigated the penalty system” we find that approx 5 % of those tests came out positive for ped’s. Since 1998 till 2005 (the sample years in this report approx) there have been just over 3000 testable players in (big league only) MLB. Take that number of players and find 5% that is +- 150 players caught…
    Mitchell’s report names 60-70 actual names. Less than half and some of those are mostly true but many could be false as the facts used are only rumors. Therefore the report might have a third or just over of the actual users named and caught but where is the value then of the report.

    The next thing the media is trying to get us to read their paper so they have sensationalized the report and added their comment, just like it was true, to the report. Such as headlines like this: “Here is the List of MLB players caught using steroids”or “List of players using steroids revealed in Mitchell report” or “Orza warns players 2 weeks before test”. they don’t seem to care that the truth was hidden from us the readers, when the news in the report finds that a player called 2 weeks before the end of the season to find out why he wasn’t tested already and was told you will be in the next 2 weeks. Gee are we that dumb or does the media not care about fair?

    We need change in baseball alright and fairness!

    As to how? I suggest that SELIG, FEHR, the owners, and the team reps all get together and apologize for their part in the enhanced drug era of baseball. MONEY BREDS PROBLEMS AND NO MAN IS IMMUNE!
    The guilt isn’t just with the player who was trying to keep his job it belongs with all the country who allowed this to happen for the almighty dollar.

    Test the players going forward and ask MLB and the union to put x amount of dollars into youth awareness ads and the same amount into state medical funds.

    Some good could come from this!

    After all alcohol had an affect on babe’s era and the league stats.

    Greenies and amphetamines had an affect during Hank’s era too…

    Don’t blame bonds and asterisk just one man but note the era along with the change in baseball. Life goes on.

    the HOF voters shouldn’t stop the men of today from reaching it just as it didn’t stop the men of yesterday that reached it. As NONE of Baseball’s elite can claim they reached the hall as pure and innocent of everything.

    Mitchell’s report did prove that anyway.

    Seems only one man is pure and that is GOD.

  118. chameleanarchy permalink
    December 14, 2007 5:00 pm

    I’ve dreaded this report coming out since Mitchell was hired to conduct the investigation. Not for the names, but for the level of rhetoric and vitriol being spewed from the four corners of the globe. Mitchell’s ties to the Red Siox were stated from the beginning, and if you read his report, you’ll see it is a advisory role only, and he has never had any input related to players. This man was being widely touted as the next commish before it was given to Selig. Gimme a break.

    As for anyone named/not named, get real. This report named 86, when there was easily 860 or even double that that used over the years. This was only the tip of the iceberg, and the sources for this report happen to have come from NY. Whoopie. IF use was nearly as rampant as the report suggests, then half of MLB clubs would have had someone like that. Everyone needs to get off their high-horse about this. Everyone is guilty, even the fans (to an extent) for soaking all this up. It was happening everywhere else in sports, and we thought that it couldn’t possibly be in MLB? Get real.

    And the shots agains Epstein about acquiring Gagne or Donnely? Those emails didn’t say “uses”, it was “has used” and the concern was injury risk. Thats why Theo passed on signing Gagne in 2006. Donnely is similar (traded for another career ml’er who was frequently hurt, btw). “A juice guy, but since testing hasn’t seen a drop in velocity… breakdown risk.” Thats the juice of it. Like I said, half of likely MLB had reports similar, especially in the last few years. Had those guys ever been caught/suspended? Nope. So all you have is a rumor. You don’t pass on improving a team for a rumor.

    As for the Hall of Fame? Whether or not the guys used has no bearing. Take anyone in there and there is some black mark on their era. Ruth played against only whites. Ty Cobb was a sadistic prick. Perry spat and Sutton scuffed. Clemens (may or may not) and Bonds used steroids. Judge them against their peers, who were also using. Guess what? Still some of the best ever. Both were sure-fire HoFers before any accusation of steroids and before they were implicated.

    Finally, I’d like to say that while this whole thing is reprehensible. That said, is it cheating? During these “Steroid Years” where was the MLB rule that called these PED’s illegal. Where was the testing? Nowhere to be found. McGwire openly displayed his andro. Why? Because it was legal, thats why. Is it cheating if its legal and/or if half of the competition is doing it as well? I say no.

    Everyone needs to take a long look in the mirror. You cheered these people the whole time. We all ate up the HR chase, even with the andro. Anyone not specifically named has the suspicion over them, regardless if they did or not. Sign of the times, nothing else. Sorry folks. I’m saddened, but not outraged. Take it for what it is – a regretable time (much like the color line era) – and move on.

  119. biggerpapi permalink
    December 14, 2007 5:55 pm

    Mo Vaughn should get a pass.
    He thought HGH stood for Hardee’s Gravy Hoagie (TM)

  120. December 14, 2007 6:23 pm

    I have a variety of thoughts and opinons on this subject. One being – I totally agree, if you bought it in your own name – basically caught red handed, man up and admit you did it and move on.

    I do not condone the use of steroids – I want to preface my comment coming next with that. But I do believe that athletes who play sports for a living are not the “general public” and their bodies take a beating in such a manner than your average person who uses them does. Excluding of course the body builder who uses HGH and Anabolic steroids. I get that body building is a sport, but I do not hold that in the same esteem as I do football or baseball. Just this girls opinion…but I digress.

    However…I do believe that there is a difference between performance enhancing drugs used to take your body to a level of growth and performance that you would not have seen otherwise on sheer talent — and use that to break records and skew statistics –and using anabolic steriods in an effort to repair and heal the body quicker. Does it make the body stronger? In some ways yes — but it also breaks the body down in many other ways, sometimes even causing death at a relatively early age.

    So basically what I’m saying is this: I disagree whole heartedly with how and why Barry Bonds used HGH and steroids. But I may not necessarily disagree with the hows and whys of how other people used them. I almost feel like I’m talking out of both sides of my mouth here – because, in some ways – isn’t it all cheating?

    All I know is this. I don’t think the Mitchell Report is going to change a thing for the players named within, except for maybe Roger Clemens. I think it’s great that the MLB wants to crack down on the use of illegal drugs – and I’m very glad that no one on the Sox was on that list. At the same time — I don’t know that it would’ve changed the opinions I hold of anyone even if they had been on there.

    Tough topic, and glad that I’m not in the middle of it all.

  121. cano24 permalink
    December 14, 2007 6:30 pm

    I left a very mature and honest comment on here and then I get a bunch of Red Sox fans who sound like 12 yr old groupies. This is not about Yankees suck and Red Sox rule so grow up! Whoever that idiot is that said the Yankees are dirty and the Red Sox organization has always played with dignity how do you know that? That is a childish and ignorant statement to make. I admitted in my last comment any Yankees named are dirty but at the same time i would bet my season tickets that the Red Sox have just as many dirty players that should have been named. This investigation had a main source from New York so of course there was many names linked to Yankees. If you had sources from all over the country you would have had 500 names on this list even your beloved Red Sox. I guess you people on here don’t have the intelligence to understand logic so I will break it down in elementary form for you. When you have a person who has millions of dollars invested into a organization he is going to do whatever he can to protect his investment. When you have a business what is the best thing to do to your rival competitor? The best thing to do is kill their public image. When you kill their public image they lose, fans, sponsors, advertisement, and respect. What does this all equal up to? NO MONEY! When somebody no longer generates enough money they can not compete with you any longer. You people need to go open up a book and stop reading the backs of baseball cards because you sound like little kids. This has nothing to do with Yankees being dirtier than the Red Sox. I have a question for whoever posted that comment about Mitchell being part of the government and trying to prove that he is a honest man. When was the last time the government was honest?

  122. dcsoxfan1 permalink
    December 14, 2007 6:35 pm

    Curt, thanks for the insight. Would love to hear more of your thoughts as to the report now that you have (presumedly) read it. Particularly, what do you think about the Sox front office discussion of Gagne? Also, do you think the union has ignored its duty to the (hopefully) majority of players who are disadvantaged by those who cheat while competing for wins and playing time? I understand that it is difficult to assign consequences to behavior that was legal and not outside the rules at the time (like taking wins away from pitchers who used the spitter before that was banned) but do you believe there should be some official consequence to those who used roids and HGH prior to the relevant rule changes?

    Don’t agree with everything you say, but I’m damned glad that you are willing to share it with us.

    One last thought, ever bring any teammates in to guest post? Would love to hear what Manny or Tek or Papi think about all this.

    Keep up the good work.

  123. elpayaso44 permalink
    December 14, 2007 6:39 pm

    No matter what happens I still love the game of baseball. I agree with you when you say just admit it. The problem is people sometimes panic in pressure situations, which only makes the problem worse. If a player’s image is already tarnished just by mere accusation, why not go ahead and come clean? In the end, more people would respect those who are honest about it, I know I would. You are right when you say we are forgiving people.
    Us as fans can try to guess who did or who didn’t, or take our pick of who we believe or don’t believe, but I for one am not going to speculate. The biggest disappointment for me lies in the fact of how this huge problem came to light. Why did it have to be someone like Canseco to bring this to attention? I have no respect for Canseco. While I am glad he drew attention to a serious problem, I do not like his agenda. To make your big bucks by possibly destroying others lives is not respectable. I know it is not Canseco’s fault that those players took the steroids or HGH, but it is that attitude behind Canseco that angers me. It is just too bad this wasn’t disclosed by a more respectable person.
    The problem will continue as long as none of the guilty parties accept responsibility and do the right thing. In the end, that is the best way. I am ready for baseball to move forward. I still love the game and will always be a fan.

  124. rsoxgal07 permalink
    December 14, 2007 7:28 pm

    I read some of the report(I plan on reading the rest a bit at a time) But then I just used the list of names for a faster idea. The fact people are saying Mitchell didn’t say any Red Sox are doing it because he was with them is ridiculous. There were a few Red Sox who ha done it in their career and then Donnelly and Gange (Who I never really liked anyways….) There were at least 5 Red Sox or previous Red Sox on that list. So that idea really has no back up. Also if you look at the Red Sox preformance it has been consistant not one year of going from ok to awsome. I don’t think he had any prejudice. Fans will argue this forever most likely and tthe best thing MLB can do is to just try and get a step ahead. Also no reason on worryign about guys who did them or supossedly did them in the 90’s. They need to just get the guys doing it now and take action as they said. Let’s get on with it, and restore integrity fo the game. I do agree with you Curt, in the respect that if people would just fess up, we can get to fixing the problem.

  125. cooper1931 permalink
    December 14, 2007 7:53 pm

    Not Roger Clemens or any one else is bigger than the game. NO ONE IS BIGGER THAN THE GAME. ESPN made me sick cutting away from games to cover Barry Bonds journey to the home run record* Oops did I use an * in place of a period.

  126. jeetslady permalink
    December 14, 2007 8:45 pm

    I have to wonder if Mitchell went to every ex club house guy that used to work for every team, because I bet there are alot more guys like McNamee.. why were more guys not threatened with prison terms? I have a feeling that there are alot more guys out there, and if I am correct, were Sosa and Mcguires names not in the report? What about Ivan Ridriguez? Does this now clear those names who have long had the steroid needle following them? I dont like the report for the simple fact it has ruined the reputations of the names in there with really no hard evidence. Very unfair.

  127. thenation1 permalink
    December 14, 2007 9:27 pm

    I have mixed emotions about the list, yes the game needs some cleaning up, but to bring the game down, after it just hit a tremendous high the last few years.

    The players union and the commisioners office should of handled it more private, I’m not saying not to punish the players who decieved federal law, but to lay all the names out as they did is wrong.

    After all it’s a club house hand, who spilled his gut’s to protect himself under great stress . Now, how creditable are these folks if they knew they were doing something illegal .

    Mr. Mitchell is a man of great integrity and I know he did not send this list out without tremendous soul searching . He had a mandate to follow and with regret some Hall of Fame players made the list.

    I hope Mr. Selig does baseball right and not taint the game by his punismnets to the players who don’t deserve it . I love the game of baseball and with this hopefully behind us , baseball can begin to heel it’s wounds and make it the greatest passtime once again.

    Mr. Schilling, thanks for providing this forum .

    Bob
    Wichita, Kansas

  128. freespeech4all permalink
    December 14, 2007 9:55 pm

    What do you all make of this report on aging and performance in baseball?

  129. redsoxknitter permalink
    December 14, 2007 10:31 pm

    Dear Schill,

    Like you, the majority of professional baseball players don’t use performance enhancing drugs. Why should you be placed at a disadvantage? If your players’ union were truly representing the best interests of ballplayers, it would be leading the charge to get drugs out of baseball. I think you and other players like you should be pressuring the union to push for whatever measures are necessary, even including blood tests for HGH, to make sure that the straight shooters aren’t placed at an unfair disadvantage.

  130. redsoxrmyheros permalink
    December 14, 2007 11:21 pm

    It sure explains Gagne’s horrific downfall and disastrous stint on the mound last season. He’s nothing without the juice.
    Clemens…no surprise there.
    Tejada…now that’s a surprise.

  131. December 15, 2007 1:17 am

    Dan Shaughnessy is showing us what we already knew about him. He is a crybaby, poor sport, a disgrace to sports writers, a wimp,self centered little man, a major leauge wannabe. That is all the time I want to waste on him.

  132. melissacop permalink
    December 15, 2007 1:40 am

    Am I reading this correctly?

    Because it was a private inquiry, Mitchell said he did not think a standard of evidence was necessary.

    “It is not a judicial proceeding. It is not a trial,” he said. “But it doesn’t make any difference what standard or what court you’re in: direct, personal, eyewitness testimony, it is the principal form of evidence in most proceedings.”

    Much of his evidence came from former Mets clubhouse attendant Kirk Radomski and former Yankees strength coach Brian McNamee, who said he personally saw use by Clemens and Andy Pettitte

    Who is actually taking this report seriously given this statement? The primary people giving the evidence are confessed drug dealers. They would be thrown out of court.

  133. atraininmaine permalink
    December 15, 2007 8:03 am

    If the reports about Clemens using performance-enhancing drugs are true, which I believe they are, this is truly a disappointing revelation for Red Sox fans who would like to believe that Dan Duquette was wrong about Roger’s future. As to the Hall of Fame question for Clemens, I think ultimately he will still be voted in, because most writers will eventually conclude that there were so many players who were juicing, that Clemens apparent “advantage” merely offset the impact that many of his opposing hitters were also getting from juicing up as well.

    What this whole issue has done for me is to solidify my opinion that borderline Hall of Fame candidates (e.g. Jim Rice), whose production numbers tailed off in his mid-30’s, and who did not seek medicinal help to offset the impact of the aging process, should be given more credibility in the next HOF voting. When Jim Rice was 35, if he’d taken a couple of shots in his butt like Clemens and Pettite apparently did, and if perhaps he’d had Lasik surgery available to him, he would have likely reached the revered 3,000 hit level and 500 home runs, and would have made the Hall of Fame on the first ballot. I compare Jim Rice’s career vs. someone like Robin Yount, who did get in, largely due to having reached the 3,000 hit milestone, and I think–which of these players would I have liked to have had in my lineup during the best 10 years of their careers? Clearly Jim Rice was the guy who struck the most fear in the hearts of Major League pitchers from 1977 to 1986. Hopefully he gets a few more votes in the next round of HOF voting, given that his career stats should be viewed in light of the fact that he did what he did without the use of steroids.

  134. cayna permalink
    December 15, 2007 8:25 am

    curt: please just let me say that I was glad not to see any of my beloved sox on that list(yes i realize that there was a few but not anyone who really mattered to me) as with most people I think none of this came as a huge surprise, with the exception of some not named. I understand that getting the upper edge by using drugs is not morally or legally right but what was the point of this report? baseball has been cleaning up there act for many years now it seems to be on the right track why ruin these guys lives as well as the lives of there families it just dosn’t make any sense to me. It seems to me that this is a bunch of, for lack of a better term, old fashion gossip. I for one will continue to be a devoted redsox fan as well as a devoted baseball fan. I also agree with the approach that the cat is out of the bag lets just say it was a problem, show some accountability, continue to aggressivly test players for drug use, and move forward. to all players, and there families I just want to say thank you for allowing us the chance to watch you play and to still, regardless of any reports, enjoy the game of baseball.

  135. fivekatz permalink
    December 15, 2007 10:02 am

    While the players seem to be the major focus of the media and the fans the report IMHO did a better job of demonstrating the roles of the franchises, MLBPA and MLB in the era.

    The report highlighted with some level of fact what many observed and speculated in the past and perhaps brought forward some things we haven’t considered before. To me these included:

    A high percentage of players used HGH or steroids not to gain a performance edge but to recovery from injury.

    A high percentage players were fringe players and used the performance boost to stay in MLB. (These are maybe the most egregious guys). After all they are taking bread out of somebody else’s mouth.

    Pitcher’s as a percentage of 25 man rosters were as dirty as hitters.

    Teams looked the other way, made travel arrangements and hotel reservations for personal trainers they knew were likely dealing to their players. Thy told team trainers to look the other way when they tried to report problems. Teams like our own RS accessed use and its affects not as a moral imperative but as a business risk (and in both cases in the report over looked any moral character issues and acquired the players).

    MLBPA and MLB so distrusted each other that the situation went on for years without deterrent. Now to me that is key. Performance enhancing drugs will not be removed from baseball, anymore than they can be from any sport. The problem in baseball was there was no effort to slow and limit their use.

    And to me if there are villains in this wild chapter of baseball history, it is MLBPA and MLB because it is those two organizations that lacked the leadership and courage to bring about the era oversight until the middle of this decade. It was caused by many of the less attractive sides of human nature, distrust, greed and self-interest.

    And to Mitchell’s credit, if you want to look for that story in his 400 plus page report it is right there.

    As for the players, IMHO forgiveness never gets old. If it has half past anything, it is half past the time to sanctimoniously denounce young men who made errors in judgment so they could play the game loved at a higher level. They were wrong but the greater failure in this era was the failure of those charged with oversight and setting the moral compass with rules and action.

    The players were the headlines but the real shame belongs to the MLBPA, MLB and the owners who became fabulously wealth for looking the other way. After all isn’t it the charge of the MLBPA to diligently seek to create an environment in the industry that is the most HEALTHY, FAIR and BENEFICIAL to its entire membership? And as for MLB, shouldn’t the integrity of the industry and the health of every worker taken priority over gaining concessions in revenue sharing and a luxury tax to benefit small market owners?

    Personally I’d be way past hearing “I’m sorry” from Selig and Orza but I haven’t really heard it said in earnst yet!

    It is actually half past time to turn the page!

  136. windycitybosock permalink
    December 15, 2007 10:04 am

    I’m saddened by the events chronicled in the Mitchell Report as any real baseball fan has to be. I also know that those named in the report are a small fraction of the total population of cheaters in this timeframe. We will never know all of the names of the cheaters and even the non-cheaters will have perceived “asterisks” next to their name only because they played during the “Steroid Era”.

    It’s unfair and I feel cheated. I can’t imagine what it’s gotta feel like to the MLB players who didn’t cheat. (Even if they have to take some of the blame for remaining silent on the issue) I don’t know who is a hero worthy of my respect anymore.

    I’m struggling with how to deal with Hall of Fame membership. It doesn’t seem right to let someone in who cheated to get there, but on the other hand, there are certainly going to be inductees who cheated but were fortunate enough not to have purchased their drugs from Radomski.

    Let’s not be naive though. Baseball is a microcosm of life in general. There is always a percentage of people who have no respect for rules, laws, or fariness as long as they get what they want. We now know at least 80 of them by name.

  137. game6sockwasfake permalink
    December 15, 2007 10:58 am

    gotta love the “shock” generated by this report…

    Clemens – not a shock here… Pettite, mildly surprising – physical signs were there, but percieved higher moral value (at least in my opinion)

    but really are you people that surprised?!

    “nictyshaw” (post #87) are you &%$#$ING kidding me?! “I would have never watched McGwire vs. Sosa if i knew they were juicing…”

    yeah buddy… people look like that normally… all the time, especially ballplayers where they need to be built for endurance, flexibility and strength, not powerlifting…

    if you take a look at McGwire’s rookie card (i believe 1987 with oakland) – he makes pedroia look like the incredible hulk

    baseball allowed it because they liked the loot – smaaten up world… now its this public outcry

    I can tell you this – HGH is so widely used and access to it so easy, you would be hard pressed to find an athlete ANYWHERE that hasn’t done it… I have 3 former college pals who played minor league ball who can certainly attest to it

    Let’s see now… 100% undetectable, recover way faster, build more muscle, burn fat, fight the aging process… can be bought anonymously online or at any anti-aging clinic across the US.

    whoever said cheaters never win knew nothing about the modern game of baseball (or playing the patriots)

    it is an entertainment industry built around a believed untainted sport, that untill flagrant abuse of these substances became apparent to the public and media was too profitable to rock the boat…

    and the bans are ridiculous – how many of you Dunkin Donut loving new englanders would lose your MIND without that cup every day, yet players cant take energy pills to play 9 innings of one of the more difficult sports in the world.

    i am sure list could have been longer

    i cant disagree enough with putting ANYONE who has an affiliation with an MLB club at the head of this investigation though (great! another corrupt senator from the new england area)

    either way – watch your ticket prices climb as there is nothing that can be done… and know that the rocket will have a red “B” on his hat if he ever does walk through those cooperstown doors.

  138. nepats1977 permalink
    December 15, 2007 11:40 am

    I find your comments on WEEI yesterday to be interesting:

    “Everybody is playing on an uneven playing field. We’re not going to allow ourselves to get cheated out of potentially trying to win a World Series because we want to be fair and right and just.”

    So, you aren’t willing to cheat yourself out of a World Series, but are willing to cheat yourself into one?

    PED users may be inevitable in this day and age, but I will have more respect for those that totally disavow the entire process.

    The real losers are those players that haven’t cheated and now have a cloud over their accomplishments, fair or not. All players should be standing up for the players that haven’t used and work tirelessly to out the users.

  139. hawk40 permalink
    December 15, 2007 1:05 pm

    At least Frank Thomas manned up and allowed an interview with Mitchell. As a supposed ‘outspoken player against PEDs’ you punked out. Frank Thomas can hold his head up high as the one true anti-PED player in the league.

  140. Bob K permalink
    December 15, 2007 1:30 pm

    Curt, I think you’re very close to hitting the nail on the head.

    The steroids era wasn’t caused by individuals, it was a group phenomenon, and once some players had success with it, it tempted other players to try them.

    When the abuse became widespread and was overlooked, it left honest players in a difficult position, and I’m sure many good people did things they otherwise wouldn’t have. I imagine young minor league players who were “almost good enough” for the majors must have faced incredible temptation.

    Unfortunately, when these problems get “reformed,” there’s a tendency to make a few people pay for the sins of the many. It’s one of the frustrating facts of social life, but it’s an impulse that I personally try to resist.

  141. billybo1621 permalink
    December 15, 2007 2:12 pm

    First off, this is my first post ever on 38pitches.com. I am VERY happy to be a part of this blog and to be able to share my love and passion for the game of baseball, especially with a player whom is one of my childhood heroes and idols.
    As one of the most avid baseball fans known to man, I am crushed by the thoughts that my childhood heroes have essentially been dashed and destroyed at release of the Mitchell Report. At the precise moment that the Mitchell Report was released the integrity of baseball was challenged. Athletes who have shattered records and molded the game into what it is today have been thrust under the spotlight and will be scrutinized by both the general public and the media. This will spark an epic conflict between moral justice and the state of America’s Pastime. Let bygones be bygones and salvage the integrity of the greatest thing known to mankind…Baseball.
    On the topic of the Mitchell Report, there are no test results or scientific evidence which incriminates any of the players. This report is based solely on hearsay of a FEW individuals. These individuals’ careers have already been destroyed. It is unlikely that they will take any steps forward with their careers, but they will without a doubt take many steps back. The only purpose that these few men have, is to tarnish the names of as many players as possible, in order to take the lime light off of themselves.
    I do believe that the era of steroids and performance enhancers needs to come to an end, but I feel as though it could have been handled in a much more professional way, without the use of hearsay. There was no need of name dropping and pointing fingers. The Mitchell Reports has poured gasoline on the fire, of this Major League Baseball “witch-hunt” for steroids.
    For nearly the past decade, there has been much buzz about “performance-enhancing substances” such as steroids and HGH. Scientifically steroids only exponentially increase one’s strength. It does NOT help one develop “quick-hands”, hand-eye coordination used for batting or fielding, or a nasty breaking pitch that may be the key to unlocking a starter’s legendary potential. Increasing the strength of an individual does not directly effect the game of baseball. It will help improve a player as a whole, by increasing power output. It does not help improve the fine, natural skills that players are “born with”. I am in no way condoning the use of steroids, because in my eyes I do consider it as cheating. Using steroids allows one to train just as hard as he has before, but the results will be greater. Human growth hormone does not physiologically increase strength. It promotes the healing and recovery of muscles. As stated in the Mitchell Report, Andy Pettitte may have used this to help him recover faster from his injury in Houston. HGH also does not directly effect one’s performance. It may skew one’s career statistics because a player may pass along the road to recovery much faster allowing him to return quicker increasing the opportunities to pad his statistics. HGH, however does not make a pitcher throw harder and does not teach any new pitches to incorporate into one’s repertoire. If a pitcher throws 98 mph, using HGH will not allow that pitcher to throw 102.
    “Performance-enhancing substances” are looked down upon throughout sports and are illegal in the game of baseball. The effect of these substances is so great that it even left Barry Bonds’ homerun record branded with an asterisk. How soon we forget Hall-of-Famer Gaylord Perry. Perry, a 314-265 career pitcher was caught doctoring the baseball, using Vaseline. Perry was suspended for his actions. Using a substance such as Vaseline DIRECTLY effects the game of baseball. It changes the actual motion and movement of a baseball as it thrown through the air. Does Perry have an asterisk along side his name in the Hall-of-Fame?
    Take Whitey Ford for example. He used his wedding ring to doctor the ball or had his catcher, Elston Howard, slice the baseball with his belt buckle. This gave the batters a distinct disadvantage. Could this be the reason why these two pitchers had been so successful? Many other players have been caught doctoring balls or corking bats, which is a disgrace to the game of baseball and directly effects the game. Albert Belle, Joe Niekro, George Brett, Rick Honeycutt, and Don Sutton are just a few of many names that have cheated to improve their baseball performance.
    I realize the health risks and the moral disgrace of using steroids. I, personally, would never use any performance enhancing substances to bring me to the next level. I sadly realize that I was not born to be a professional baseball player. God gave me the ability that I had, and I am truly appreciative of the experiences that my time playing baseball has allowed me. I do understand that I have never been put in the situation of being one step away from the next professional level. I have never been “good enough” to have a career playing baseball. Using steroids is illegal and against MY moral values. I do realize that each and every player was born and raised with his own morals and values. I am not going to pass judgment solely based on hearsay. The Mitchell Reports have not proved anything. I guess as a fan, I am torn that my childhood heroes could have betrayed my trust and it is reality that some of them may have “un-naturally” achieved goals and broken records of which we have all dreamed about since we were children. Each night every player who has artificially enhanced his performance needs to shut his eyes, knowing that he broke a record, not on his own, but with the help of “performance-enhancing substances”. Think back to when we were children. Christmas was so much more exciting waiting for Santa Claus to come and leave the presents. The fact is, not every question like, “Is Santa Claus real?” needs to be answered. It is human nature to want answers to everything. But why not move on from these terrible times, and let each player deal with his or her own personal demons, without tarnishing the names of innocent individuals and the game of baseball.

  142. ugoshel permalink
    December 15, 2007 2:57 pm

    This report really has socked me in the gut. I knew it was going to be tough going, but seeing players names that I have admired is more difficult than I expected.
    That being said, I’ll make my point. Players who have been found to be using (and I’m not sure that the Report is all the proof) should NOT be allowed to coach.
    I am appalled that Matt Williams is coaching Single A kids in the Arizona organization. He is so far from a model of behavior. He used to smoke Winstons in the locker room for christ’s sake. But the steriods thing makes him and all the others UNFIT to coach. That will only perpetuate the problem in the game.
    If former players have been juiced fine. Let’s move on. But no one suspected of steroids should be allowed to be around the up and coming players of the game.

  143. gbincon permalink
    December 15, 2007 2:57 pm

    As a player who has played the game the right way, aren’t you concerned that you have faced cheaters? Your statistics have been earned in a world where others have cut corners….why haven’t more players like you gone to the union and ask to clean it up?; my suspicion is that too many of the players have been using HGH and therefore there isn’t critical mass of players out there putting pressure on the union executives for stricter testing.

    When you come up for HOF consideration, I would think your numbers are validated as having been earned cleanly….my hope is that others like you will begin to fight for a level playing field and to have the cheaters eliminated from the game.

  144. December 15, 2007 3:55 pm

    I do wish I hadn’t been the first person on the comment list and mentioned Varitek because the list wasn’t confirmed at all. So I do apologize for that and will use my better judgment next time when it comes to make a snap judgment on something that isn’t true.

  145. redsoxknitter permalink
    December 15, 2007 6:23 pm

    I think the players’ union should aggressively represent the interests of those players who, like you, do not use performance enhancing substances. Those players are greatly wronged. Stricter testing, including blood sampling in the absence of an adequate urine assay for HGH would insure that honest players are not subjected to unfair competition.

    It has been a great mystery to me how the union can see itself as protecting its constituents by opposing testing; it is only protecting a minority of the players and doing a great disservice to the majority.

  146. drosen7777 permalink
    December 15, 2007 6:39 pm

    Uh, anyone you know or respect on the list, Roger?

  147. ppiddy permalink
    December 15, 2007 7:18 pm

    That Yankee hater logo is so juvenile. Grow up! Or get some anger management help.

  148. dianeadele permalink
    December 15, 2007 8:43 pm

    Those who seek forgiveness, should be forgiven. Baseball belongs to all of us and they let the game down. They let all those who went before them down. That is why they should ask forgiveness.

  149. janet2 permalink
    December 15, 2007 8:45 pm

    that settles it………steroids DON’T work!!!!!! look at eric gagne!

  150. crowlebb permalink
    December 15, 2007 11:12 pm

    Andy Petitte. There doesn’t seem to be many forums (that I know of) to comment yet. It is REALLY nice for grown men to admit their mistakes. I really, really hate the Yankees and everything remotely associated with them, but I can now pull for Petitte since he finally showed class and fessed up. The mark of person is not the mistakes they make but in how they respond. He took a little while to respond, but, in the end, he did the right thing. Some will argue that he was forced into this admission and that makes it less genuine. That’s probably true. Maybe I (and many others) are wrong to forgive him, but I will anyway. I’m not going to root for him to win, but I’m not going to hope that he loses miserably (which is a change for me). Andy, if you ever read this, you ultimately did the right thing. Curt, thank you for this place for fans (both pro and con) to get things off their chest and for your great insight. I am proud to be a member of Red Sox Nation with you at the forefront.

  151. FireDannyAinge permalink
    December 15, 2007 11:55 pm

    The original list of players was reported on a NY website. That says it all to why Varitek’s name was on the fake list.

  152. yanksrdaclassofbball permalink
    December 16, 2007 4:26 am

    You sux fans are so freakin lame it’s laughable. You were the poor shmucks for 86 years until you got a little taste of victory. Now, u guys are so “holier than thou”. Oh, we are world champs….none of our guys were juicing….Yankees titles are tainted. Yeah okay, the four titles NYY won from 96-00 were won due to steroids. Give me a break…LOSERS… what about the 22 titles we won before that?? what magic cheating method did we use there?? Cheating comes in many forms… I’ll give you a good example: having a piece of s*** pitcher drill a batter with a pitch, then have the coward ass catcher follow him to first base and start a fistfight with him to try to either A: rattle him and get him off his game, or B: get him ejected. yes Im talking about Fairy-Tek.

    Patriots were flat out caught cheating this year, if they win the Super Bowl, will it be tainted?? I cant even describe with words the hatred that I have for all things Red Sox, especially the fans…. whiney, needy, dorky losers. The way you guys kiss Curts big behind is so stupid… Mr Outspoken, who would’nt talk to Mitchell, whats he got to hide?? I got an idea… He was in Philly, u never heard crap about Curt, he was a decent pitcher, nothing special. Then he goes to Arizona and becomes a phenom?? I wonder if he was clean…Steroids don’t necessarily make you look buff, look at Giambi, he always looked fat and bloated to me, so does Curt. So put those assumptions together, Sawx fans.

    I dont approve of steroids by any means, but it doesn’t make me feel that the Yankees championships were any less meaningful, maybe there really were guys using at the time, it doesnt represent the whole team. I will rejoice when the day comes that Boston is back to being the losers that they always were. And why doesn’t anyone ever talk about the racism that has always been a part of Red Sox tradition?? There have only been a small group of black players on the team (papi doesn’t count, he’s Dominican) So it appears that the Red Sox organization is not all it’s cracked up to be. Enjoy your little bit of success losers, it wont last for long…

  153. yuckthefankees permalink
    December 16, 2007 3:33 pm

    Well in light of all this roid stuff, I guess we know 2 things are certain:

    1) We no know the secret ingredient in Roger’s Rocket Fuel (sad to say).

    2) Safe to say that when Gagne came to Boston he forgot to pack his roids and bring them with him.

  154. jacqhammerette permalink
    December 16, 2007 4:59 pm

    Why do people have to cheat.. Baseball as said in a movie is a simple game… “you hit the ball… you catch the ball .. you throw the ball.” But as we have always taught our four daughters.. there are always cheats. When someone passes a test by cheating, steals something, lies and tells half truths do they really feel a sense of accomplishment? Baseball will always survive. This is the first step of the cleansing. We live near a Cape Cod league field and we all frequent the games. Hubby , me, the girls and the dogs. It has always been so envigorating watching these young men try their hearts out. Sometimes successfully and alas sometimes not, but oh well. I heard hubby comment once “is this the way Abner Doubleday intend the game to be played”. We love baseball, we love fair play, whether you win or lose is not the most important.. “when that one great scorer comes to mark against your name, he cares not whether you won or lost but how you played the game”. The healing process is launched.. should people lose awards and accolades?. no… Should people be ashamed? ..they better be. Will the young men (and someday young women) be the elexir that heals the great game of baseball? … I ave no doubts.

  155. rsj09 permalink
    December 16, 2007 5:28 pm

    In response to most and you and specifically billbo, you need to get past the fact that some of the players listed in the report were your childhood hero’s and “they could never do such a thing, their career is now tarnished forever for HERESAY!” You’re absolutely wrong in every sense and you’re only kidding yourself by not realizing the truth.

    This report is not just word spread through the grapevine. This report took a year and some months (I believe) and the former Senator and his team conducted a thorough investigation – something Senator’s are used to, most notably reports compiled for Congress to review and analyze – and concluded that the players listed most likely and probably did use performance-enhancing drugs. This was their job, day in a day out – to find out what went on. They have testimony from batboys to probably the mascots. There’s no way around it. The only way you’re all getting around it is by avoiding the truth because it hurts and “oh he’s my idol, he would never do that, Mitchel is an idiot for trash talking!”

    I know Curt loves Roger, i mean there aren’t a lot of people who don’t – he’s a hall of famer no question about it, but please – you want him to assemble a team of lawyers to sue everyone? How ignorant can you be? In order for any sort of lawsuit to be brought against anyone there are certain guidelines that need to be met. First off, the claim needs to be FALSE. It needs to be proven false for there to be any case at all. It then needs to be proven that it was meant to bring harm to the intended person. I’m not a lawyer, i’m simply a college student with some knowledge of the subject, but there’s no case that will be brought to COURT. I’m sure there will be a lawsuit brought for Roger to save face and “deny all allegations and slanderous comments brought against him and his career” and blah blah blah.

    Atleast Petitte admitted to using HGH in 2002. It wasn’t a banned substance then and is now, so it’s not really that important. But what’s different about this situation? Petitte has the courage, and most importantly testicular fortitude, to step forward and say “yes” i did do this and that. He did not say – “you all ruined my image, my career is tainted, my family has to put up with this” – well maybe you should’ve told your family you were using these things, Roger. But I am not here to talk about family morals and what people should and shouldn’t do.

    In all, grow up. I know you idolized the guy, but that doesn’t put him above everyone else. Accept the fact that it’s very probable he did this stuff in the report and learn from these mistakes.

  156. tanggolf permalink
    December 16, 2007 9:32 pm

    Curt…first time post. Thanks for a great blog! A quick, but different, thought on why ‘roids use is such an explosive issue for baseball whereas not so much in football. My take is this…it isn’t so much about the records, afterall, how do we come to terms with the pre-1947 stats when some of the best ballplayers never played in the majors? No, I think it runs a bit deeper than that…you see, all of us, at some point, though we could play in the bigs. Afterall, players of all sizes have had success at that level…Freddie Patek, David Eckstein, even your own Dustin Pedroia. I think we identify better with baseball players better than we did or do with the 250-300 pound monsters in the NFL or the six-and-a-half-footers in the NBA. For every horse like you, Cal, Frank Thomas, there are countless smaller guys to whom we can relate. Our inner child thinks we could have played in the bigs because we can identify size-wise with someone out there. Not so much in the NFL or NBA… Therefore, to think that someone who “is just like us” is putting the game out of reach for the average guy just pissess us off. Frankly, I think that’s the issue with the fans…this is the last sport we can fantisize about playing regardless of our God-given bodies…we believe anyone–ourselves or our five-foot-four son can play ball given the proper work ethic and dedication…but now, with “everyone” turning to the juice, the perception is that we or our sons don’t have a shot anymore….thoughts?

  157. sdredsoxfan permalink
    December 17, 2007 7:07 am

    Curt,

    I was really happy that no players that were an integral part of our team were on the Mitchell report. I was disappointed thought that Roger Clemens was on it. I am really glad that he decided to go to the Yankee’s this past season. I would hate to see all that he has accomplished over the years go down the drain because he was dumb enough to use steroids. From the sound of it he didn’t start until he left us and went to Toronto. Most of his accomplishments were before that. I know Gagne’s name was on the list but he had already signed with the Brewer’s and all you have to do is look at his record to see that he wasn’t using steroids with us. Brenden Donnelly was on there as well. But he didn’t pitch this last season. I was surprised also to see Mo Vaughn I always liked him when he played for us.

    Were you surprised by any of the names? I knew Barry Bonds would be on the list. All you have to do is look at pictures of him pre and post to see the difference. You cannot tell me that he did not use steroids or HGH.

    I know that Andy Pettite came out over the weekend and admitted that he had used HGG, I believe he said in 2002 when he was recovering from an injury. I am not sure why Roger Clemens would have used them but so far he has denied it. I pray he didn’t use but am afraid that he did. I won’t let that taint my opinion of him because I loved watching him play when he was with us. We never won a world series but he gave us so many exciting moments. 1986 we should have won but we all remember what happened. Thank God for 2004 and 2007. I have to admit though when they show replays of how it all ended in 86 I still close my eyes.

    That is in the past now thanks to you guys. I can now say that the RedSox have won the World Series twice in my lifetime. YEAH!!!

    I hope that the steroid issue does not hurt baseball but I am afraid that it will. I know that I will still be rooting for my guys in Boston.

  158. dcsoxfan1 permalink
    December 17, 2007 11:37 am

    Hey Yanksrdaclass, are you kidding? Did you really just call out Schilling and then assert that Papi is not black because he’s dominican? Moron.

  159. brian7883 permalink
    December 17, 2007 2:08 pm

    Find it kinda of funny that not one promienent Sox player is on the list. SR. Mitchell is a disgrace to the game and to himself. That list does no justice. Dont be nieve Shilling that none of your teammates are not or were not on the juice.

  160. hottscott permalink
    December 17, 2007 4:24 pm

    The players on the report were all contacted before it’s release to give them a chance to defend themselves. The players were told that they would not be prosecuted for using performance enhancers but would be for lying. So none of them showed.

    David Segui took the high ground and confessed that he himself used them. He made it clear that he wouldn’t report on other players.

    What do you do when nobody talks?

  161. yanksrdaclassofbball permalink
    December 17, 2007 7:25 pm

    dcsoxfan1,

    I called Curt out as a means to make a point that anyone in the game could have been juicing and there are so many things that could be assumed, such as, this player here never did this or that in his fist 10 years, then all of a sudden his performance goes way up. Was he juicing just because of that?? We’ll never know, particularly if the player wont cooperate, it can create an impression that theres something to hide. And as for Papi, let me be politically correct; he is not African-American, thats what I meant when I said he doesn’t count as black. So if I offended Mr Ortiz, I apologize to him, not to you Moron!!!!! But since we’re on the subject, how come none of you self righteous idiotic sox fans dont take up the argument and defend your team when the race issue comes up?? Because you know it’s true… the red sox have historically avoided AFRICAN-AMERICAN players, save a few. Whats the story there??? So dcsoxfan, I hope now even an idiot like you can understand what I said, now that I had to spell it out to you like the pre-schooler that you are.

  162. jacqhammerette permalink
    December 17, 2007 7:48 pm

    Hopefully this will not lead to a “witch hunt”. I am sure that all sorts of unfounded accusations will be made.. just the normal journalistic thingy to break the “big Story”. Shoot me if you want to but, Roger Clemens will be one of the leagendary pitchers of all time. Did he? …perhaps. Why?… only he knows. Was he great.. absolutely. Dang did I say that? A devoted red sox fan coming to the defense of a Red Sox/Yankee legend. How deep will they dig? How far back? Baseball will survive. Our childhood heroes will still be our heroes.

  163. redsoxrmyheros permalink
    December 17, 2007 8:03 pm

    Hey yanksrdaclassofbball,
    I know you typed something, but when I read it, all I could see was blah, blah, blah….yada, yada, yada…typical Skankee fan reply.

  164. atraininmaine permalink
    December 17, 2007 9:38 pm

    Why are so many people questioning George Mitchell and his report because there were no current Red Sox players on it? I have never agreed with George Mitchell politically, but I do know that he is a man of integrity and high intelligence. Maybe there are no Red Sox players on the list, because none of the current Red Sox players are actually cheating!! Think about it brian7883 and the others who have suggested the same.

  165. loveyanks permalink
    December 18, 2007 8:55 pm

    hey redsoxrmyheros

    great comeback, nitwit.

  166. davidkay3 permalink
    December 18, 2007 9:33 pm

    Curt, are you surprised you weren’t cited on any report considering all the nose candy you’ve inhaled during your career?

  167. warbler44 permalink
    December 18, 2007 11:07 pm

    Curt, you got in front of the Senate and swore to tell the truth. You were on the 93 Phillies and you had no knowlage of any steroid use in that clubhouse? I’m from from Philly and I knew Dykstra was juicing. And I know there were others. Your only fooling yourself with that testamony you gave. You should tell the truth when you swear on the bible.

  168. rudremn permalink
    December 18, 2007 11:40 pm

    26 championships blah blah its the only fuel to any New Yorkers arguement. The fact is still there were more names from the Yankees on the list then any other team. If you feel the need to include (lets say 15 names) from the red sox to the list then it is fair to say that there were probably as many names left off the list that were members of the Yankees as well. Mitchell didnt name everyone and thats is not a mystery. I personally feel that roids or HGH didnt make anyone that much better. Yes it made them throw faster and yes hit the ball farther however it did not help them locate pitches better or help with hand eye coordination. Basically the arguement to why the Yanks r so successful is $$$$$$ as the Sox are helping to prove by spending almost as much and winning more championships this decade then even ur precious Yanks. I guess the only thing that the Sox are doing differently from the Yanks are we are getting younger while your special team will be juicing it up with gerital for years to come.

  169. yanksrdaclassofbball permalink
    December 19, 2007 3:46 am

    hey heros,

    the only reason you saw blah blah blah was probably because yor dumb a** cant read. Also, I wasn’t talking to you so mind your business

  170. lincoln572 permalink
    December 19, 2007 9:36 am

    ATTENTION BASEBALL FANS: don’t be lemmings and fall for this crap. These overpaid, holier-than-thou moral/religious folks (i.e., Petite) grandstand about their “higher calling”, but at the same time are injecting drugs into their butt so they can cheat. Then, when they caught, they pull out the official players-union excuse – “I only did it once” (or however many times G. Mitchell has documentation)…..”I was only doing it to recover from an injury”.

    Yeh – everyone’s recovering from an injury, and G. Mitchell just happened to get so lucky that he stumbled across the one time you took the illegal drug.

    These folks are all liars and hypocrites, and the other ballplayers and press suck-ups supporting them are knee-jerk enablers. I never understood how all those folks in SanFran could support Barry — now I see. When it’s your own guy, blame everyone else and look for any excuse.

  171. yanksrdaclassofbball permalink
    December 19, 2007 12:39 pm

    Rudemn,

    Sorry you weren’t getting any attention, thanks for throwing your dunce cap into the arena. That made a lot of sense, that the Yanks are only about $$$$ but the red sox are spending just as much to win championships. YOU MAY BE THE MOST IDIOTIC SAWX FAN YET!! So when the Sux spend money it’s not about the money, only whent the Yankees do? Dude, we got one championship this decade, you got two. The decade ain’t over yet, and believe me, just cause you guys are flukingly winning one here one there does not make a dynasty. Talk all you want about the “Red Sox (Mitchell) Report” it doesn’t mean anything. The sawx have been ouir whipping boys for 90 something years and there will be more to come. Let’s use an analogy: There is a kid on the block who is always been bigger, stronger and better than another. But the other kid keeps trying to tangle with the bigger kid. Eventually after countless ass whippings, the other kid is able to slip in a few quick punches. He stayed in the fight, but he’s got a long way to go if he’s gonna win the war. Get it now simple mind? The sux have a long way to go if they are gonna even build a winning history. Before their history of winning compares to ours, I’ll be old and grey (and I just turned 40). And the other interesting part is, we aren’t the only team that has joined in the act. There was Cincinnati in 75, the Mets in 86, I mean dude, you guys have pretty much been the joke of baseball forever. You guys must love the Cubs, they are the only team that compares with your guys’ misery. At leat the Cubs remain a CLASS ACT despite their woes. So tune in to WGN a little this year and take some notes from the Cubs fans, loser. And don’t try to tangle with the bigger kid anymore, he’ll just kick you in the rear and send you crying to momma again.

  172. choncy permalink
    December 19, 2007 11:36 pm

    i cant tell you how dissapointing it is to me that DRUGS IN BASEBALL has not been swept under the rug yet. i freakin get it.
    i get that pro athletes use anything they can for an edge over the competition.
    what have we accomplished with The Mitch.? runnin names through the mud.? it would be interesting if all the players that were named in The Mitch named other players that they knew were using PEDs but didnt get em from that idiot Mac “trainer” dude.
    one thing i find strange in all this is of all the sports to benefit greatly from PEDs baseaball is near the bottom next to bowling. yet thanks to the media baseball is the most drugged sport on the planet.
    when you look at what PEDs actually do to a body you can see who would benefit the most from using them.
    Cycling, Hockey, Basketball, Football etc.
    funny thing about pro cycling. they get new drugs that are so new they arent on the banned substance list yet. that’s what smart athletes do . they dont get caught. Lance Armstrong one of the most drugged athletes in history. never caught. that makes him the smartest in my book. take a minute to read up on what pro cyclists do to not get caught doping. Tyler Hamilton(pro cyclist on L armstrongs team when Lance won the first few tours de france) was busted a few yrs ago for having someone elses blood in his body. meaning he got a freakin blood transfusion with sombodies clean blood right before he was tested. i dont even want to tell you what his lawyer made up to try to get him off the hook on the one.
    here’s my point. drugs in sports is not cheating. it will never go away.
    give it a rest because all this hype just spreads its use. that’s right. The Mitch report did nothing but spread it’s use. whether you agree with me or not.

  173. loveyanks permalink
    December 20, 2007 8:31 am

    hey yanksrtheclassofball

    read what 238 ecdow, said about the yankees in the mitchell report, it’s in curts,players on mitchell reports,

  174. 7andcounting permalink
    December 20, 2007 2:09 pm

    Yanks are the class of baseball? Why, because they slap balls out of opposing players’ gloves? Because they yell “i got it” so the guy will drop the ball? Because Clemens, Pettite, Giambi, Knobloch, Neagle, Justice,Stanton, K brown were all cheating juicers? Because theyre the biggest chokers in professional sports history(2004 ALCS) ? All yankee fans can do is brag about their 22 rings (go ahead and brag about 96-2000!!! lol.) which is called living in the past. The World Champions are the Boston Red Sox. My nephew is seven and hes never seen the yankees win a world series. I forgot Sheffield & Arod Yeah. The yankees are the class of BALL alright.

  175. ythebest permalink
    December 20, 2007 6:56 pm

    hey 7and counting

    i’ve read some no class statements, from redsox fans , but you have to be the

    BIGGEST IDIOT OF THEM ALL…….

    lets start with slapping, how about mr fairytek starting a fight with a-rod with all his gear on,a-rod was just walking to first base,but fairy was thinking he could get a-rod thrown out, didn’t work did it.he kicked his butt, took two redsox to pull him off.
    4 or 5 players don’t win ws buddy, its a team efford something you know nothing about.
    you wana talk about chokes?lets mention a few

    68
    86
    03
    i say the scumsox our in a class by themselfs, losing that is. you also mention you’re nephew was 7,are you sure you didn’t mean 7 ws in 86 yrs?show some class,i know it’s hard to do.all those yrs of losing. it’s the only thing you know how to do right. need some advice? ask a yankee fan. now,go hangout with you’re 7 yr old nephew, and when you grow up(i doubt it)come hang out with the adults,fool……..

  176. playerspeak permalink
    December 20, 2007 11:14 pm

    This list is not exhaustive. Just think about all the players who have shrunk in the past four years.

    I would prefer a clean sweep.

  177. shibe1231 permalink
    December 21, 2007 7:11 pm

    I’ve got mixed feelings on this whole matter. I truely believe that when all this steroid and hgh stuff started. MLB as a whole, from the commissioner’s office to the owners, management and players all had a don’t ask and don’t tell policey. It wasn’t till Canseco’s book came out, congress got involved and baseball records were being broken anyone paid any attention to this. Then it was accusations and denials from all involved. Every player who took these steroids took them for many reasons. First of all, it started as a non-sin everybody is doing it thought. Many different reasons continued it. People who were losing their jobs because another player on steroids replaced him. Other players got involved to get back on the field after an injury, again as to not lose their jobs, and last of all the money involved is another temptation hard to pass up. A second baseman that normally hits 10 or 12 homers a year gets paid alot less than a second baseman who hits 25 homers a year. Now none of this excuses what has been done, but its very understandable. It is also the past, and things have already changed drastically to stop it all. Nothing can be changed in the past. This report is only a phoney chest thumping from the powers who be. All that anyone should be concerned with now, is that has been stopped. Had MLB been soooo concerned with this problem, they would have stopped this years ago when it started and they ignored it.

  178. tlil248 permalink
    January 15, 2008 7:19 am

    What about the spitball? Isn’t that as “cheary” as HGH and steroids?

  179. tlil248 permalink
    January 15, 2008 7:21 am

    I meant “cheaty”–sorry about the typo….

  180. fnoble9269 permalink
    February 12, 2008 6:02 pm

    How funny is it that all the Yankees fans are 1) Reading a Red Sox superstars blog and 2) Really mad that when the word cheater comes out it is associated with the Yankees and not the sox? I think it’s great that they all come up with the same excuse that Mitchell has an association with the sox but fail to mention the fact that there are sox on the list. If I remember correctly there were two semi current sox in Donnelly and Gagne and two current Yankees in Giambi (who admitted as much) and Pettite (who also admitted as much, though AFTER his cheating behind was caught) I’m no math genius but I’m pretty sure 2 and 2 is equal. Note, I’m not counting Clemens because we don’t know whether or not he is guilty yet.

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38 Pitches

Curt Schilling's Official Blog

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